Hold 'Em, a beginner's thoughts (long)

[eggrock]

First some background: My wife & I flew her two nephews down to
Phoenix to treat them to a vacation. The oldest boy likes to gamble a
bit and we got into watching the WSOP on ESPN. I'd heard of the game
but never played it (correctly) and am not a big gambler in general..
I always hated playing poker because it always seemed I had crappy
cards--probably meaning that I wasn't playing very well. Never thought
there was much beyond the cards you were holding in fact. But I'm
always up for new card games so I learned the rules and played online
that night, then the next day we went to a casino here in Phoenix and
sat in on a $3-6 table.

Long story short, he left $100 at the table in about fifteen minutes
and I played for around three hours, coming up $84 ahead. Beginner's
luck? I dunno, I was playing what seems to be called 'tight' on this
newsgroup, and I think I can hit these casinos every week and come out
ahead almost every single time, at least at the $3-6 tables anyways...

A couple of things I noticed, online players seem to be very loose
with their (play) money; bluffing in general is a bad thing because at
least one person will call you every single time. The real money
players at the casino weren't a whole lot better; there were a few
hands where everyone folded but not a whole lot. I'd imagine bluffing
happens a lot more in higher dollar games.

But what really amazed me was the amount of money people dropped at
the table. In three or three-and-a-half hours at a table with
something like ten seats, something like twenty or thirty people sat
down and left. Only me and one other guy sat in for the whole time,
and I only saw one person (a couple actually) leave as winners. But
even they weren't up big, after the girl won two hands in a row the
game doubled to $6-12, then her boyfriend/husband won a monster pot
(well, $150 or so anyways). I heard her say "a couple more hands" and
had to smile. They left about $20 up, and I do understand the
principle of a 'quick in and out'... The rest of the table would sit
in, drop all their money and leave, with the occasional person coming
back with more chips and doing the same thing. I barely know the rules
of the game (and understand a little of the betting) but I can't
believe how fast people were throwing money on the table, especially
in a game where the house has no edge at all and most of the time you
don't even have to ante to get your cards!

I saw lots of crap hands win the pot, but I never stuck around long
enough to throw my money in on those 2c 7d hands I was getting dealt.
Like I said, I bet 'tight' and didn't move a ton of money one way or
the other; I was happy winning anything at all. I'd usually only stick
around to see the flop if I had a shot at a straight or a flush, or
had a nice pair or two high cards, and folded immediately unless I
only needed one card to make it; and I'd never wait for the fifth
card--the river?--unless it was for a flush.

Once in awhile I'd hang around for the flop and maybe the turn if I
had one high card.. Sometimes it paid off especially if my low card
paired (and was the highest pair shown in the community; I always took
those hands).

I dunno, it's still a bit Greek to me, but I guess you could say the
room was full of suckers that didn't understand that keeping your
money in your stack was often better than throwing it all out,
especially since bluffing didn't seem to work very well.

So, $84 and a good day IMO.. Then I had to come home and rent
'Rounders'.. Heh, I'd be the 'grinder' I guess (if I was a real
player). Like I said, high-dollar tables are probably a different
thing entirely, and I'm sure Vegas and Atlantic City have more
competent players.. But I figure I can make some decent cash on the
side at these local casinos if I play tight--I call it playing
'smart'--and just keep taking sucker's money.

I did get taken on a few hands, two that I remember. One I had two
Kings in the hole, and someone else had two Aces, and one other where
I got completely blindsided by a straight.. I think I had a
three-of-a-kind on that one and didn't even see that a straight was
even possible. And I tell you what, I think a LOT of other,
inexperienced players like me don't see those straights either because
when I got one of those I could just keep on betting and betting and
people would throw their money in the pot. I think my problem here is
that I wussed out and folded if I had the low cards in a straight.. I
need to learn the odds of the game before I'll gamble on that hand,
even though I didn't often see two people with a straight in the same
hand. And I HATE betting with a two-pair hand unless my hole cards are
split and one matches the highest community cards. (Even then I won't
bet a whole lot..)

The odds seem complicated; is there a good FAQ somewhere that explains
them clearly?

The good things that happened to me were when I folded early. I only
remember one hand where I would have taken the pot but got out free,
possibly paying the small or large blind. Or if not free, at least
cheap, $3 or $6 dollars.

Oh, yeah, one other hand I got nailed by a higher full house than what
I had, damn second king came up in the river draw and I saw it
coming... Had to stay in to see the cards anyways.

I figure on a better than average day, playing eight hours or so at a
$3-6 table, I could probably expect to take home at least $200-300
more than I started with, and double that on a great day. Maybe lose
$40-60 on a bad day. As long as I play fairly conservatively--I don't
think too many amateurs understand the game at all.

So am I on crack or do I have an angle here? I know it sounds
enticing, almost too good to be true on a small-time basis anyways,
but if I stick to the game plan I think I can make modest amounts of
money on a regular basis.. Gimme ten years and you might see me in
Vegas playing for real money. :-)

[Brwencino]

I think you are more right than wrong, especially about a 3-6 holdem game and
playing tight. Trying to run over these games with superaggressive play is
going to cost you a lot---leave the pro advise for the larger games. However,
a couple of points: 1. You are too optiimistic about your win rate, because
you will not run into loose/reckless players all the time and because there
will be days when you blow through that $100 very fast playing solid and being
beat by better cards. 2. Yes, there are no house odds, but there is a
collection and in a small game this takes a big chunk out of your expected
winnings. 3. You must factor in that some times you will not play well. All
players loose their discipline at times and you will not be an exception. 4.
Playing tight at these games is correct, but be sure to play good hands
aggressively by raising both before and after the flop so that you will get out
at least some limpers who may draw out on you and you will maximize the pots
you win.
Having said all this, I do believe 3-6 games are beatable in the long run if
you have discipline and play them correctly, but I would lower my win
expectation (factoring in the days you will loose) to about $60 per session--a
good amount of work for a fairly small return. If you move up to higher games
to increase this amount, you will run into generally (not always) better and
more aggresive players---therein lies the problem and many wanna be pros who
went broke.

[Vince lepore]

eggrock@yahoo.com (eggrock) wrote in message news:<b5053afd.0308040923.7940b484@posting.google.com>...

I think I can hit these casinos every week and come out
> ahead almost every single time, at least at the $3-6 tables anyways...
>
Wanna bet?

Vince

[jarrett40]

eggrock@yahoo.com (eggrock) wrote > I figure on a better than average
day, playing eight hours or so at a
> $3-6 table, I could probably expect to take home at least $200-300
> more than I started with, and double that on a great day.

$50 a day is a good win in $3-6.

> I don't
> think too many amateurs understand the game at all.

So true.

I know it sounds
> enticing, almost too good to be true

You know the old saying,don't you?

jarrett40

[eggrock]

Thanks for the advice everyone. If nobody minds I'd like to keep
posting to this thread only, a sort of core dump of my thoughts; maybe
it will come in handy to the next noob that comes along, and I know
I'll be reading and rereading my thoughts over the next few months if
not years. Might be enjoyable for those of you who don't remember your
third day of playing the game, and I'll do my best to try and make
things interesting.

First, some replies.. Sounds like I'm overly optimistic about my
winnings potential, maybe I just sat at a decent table and got lucky
the first time. Wanna bet... I'll get back to you on that one Vince.

The casino I went to gets a rake for each hand, up to $4 (dunno the
percentage). There are no seat charges or anything like that so it
shouldn't be too expensive just to play, and cheap at the price if all
I lose is a few $1-$3 blinds. I think the small blind goes to the bad
beat pot.

"All players loose their discipline at times and you will not be an
exception."

Prophetic.... More on this in a bit. (And the 'more on' is a pun
pointed at myself.)

I did find the RGP FAQ which is extremely well done. I thank everyone
that worked on it, it's a gem. Outside of any chastisements on this
thread for not reading it /before/ I posted here--sorry, I paid for
that little omission by ordering a book before finding out that I may
have been able to get it for a discount from one of the RGP members.
(Ordered the S&M '... Advanced' Hold Em book.) Thanks in advance for
being more gentle to this noob than the folks at comp.lang.perl.misc
would be. ;-)

I also read one of the dictionaries. Again, well done. I'll do some
Google searches and see if I can't find the story behind 'Presto!
Irwin!'..

A couple of questions...

1) I don't expect to see much of it, but I'm wondering if mentoring is
common at all in this game. I think some real world feedback from
someone with real skills would be a good thing.

2) If #1 is true, how many of you live in the Phoenix area? :-) Or do
I just need to go to certain online rooms?

About last night.

I've been playing online at pokerroom.com--haven't read much about
that site here, but it seems decent and connection latency isn't too
horrible, although I've heard a few complaints about slowness,
probably from dialup users. You can find me as 'eggrock' in one of the
top listed $10-20 (play money, ten seat) tables if you feel like
schooling me.

Last night was a wild ride. I'm old enough to realize that going
through life is a series of lessons in humility--the only good lesson
that pride will teach you. I found one in the $10-20 room last night
but it's going to take some time to learn.

I am and always have been under the impression that there are certain
things that people can do intuitively, and that you can do anything
you want until you place restrictions upon yourself. Of course, this
generally only happens with children since they're the only people
that don't have (m)any restrictions. Living life tends to
restrict/train your subconscious and you slowly lose the ability to
just do something new without thinking about it. I suppose idiot
savants have an innate ability in certain areas, albeit at a horrible
cost, and martial arts students train their entire lives learning how
to consciously control their subconscious.. If you know what I mean.
Just my opinion.

I have this opinion to some extent about playing Hold Em (and cards in
general), if I just get into the game and play to my strengths,
perhaps I can bring a fresh, or at least an unexpected angle to my
game. (I fully realize how pompous this sounds, sorry if you take it
that way but I'm just being as honest as I can, not egotistical.)

With this in mind, I spent a good part of the day yesterday reading
through this newsgroup, primarily reading the FAQ, dictionary and a
few journals from other people's trips. Highly entertaining but I
didn't want to get too deep into people's playing strategy or anything
to lead me astray from the 'intuitive' path. Unfortunately I picked up
enough to be dangerous, mostly in the ego department.

I came home from the bar last night after a nice meal, a couple of
beers and a Long Island tea--oops--and had about an hour to play
online. I logged in with a Billy Badass attitude, I was going to kick
everybody's butts and take the good memories to sleep with me. First
hand was a boat, an easy, small-ish pot of $400 or so. A couple hands
of betting experiments (just to see everyone's reactions) took care of
around $200 of my play money 'profits'.

Then I got the AA's in the pocket and the ride began. I bet and raised
before the flop; there were a bunch of people at this table kind
enough to reraise (all night long) and not too many folds either. Well
enough, or so I thought. A couple of blanks and a K on the flop, and
another flurry of raises/reraises. Then a K on the turn. I knew there
was a cowboy in somebody's pocket, I knew it! The guy who held it may
as well have typed '*perk*' on the chat line; I knew who he was and I
knew what was going to happen to me. Like a bad dream where you're
trying to run from something but can't, I couldn't (read: wouldn't)
get out of the hand, I had to see it all. Then a blank on the last
hand and the whole table kept raising and reraising, with me clicking
'Call' as my stomach dropped lower and lower. You know the rest of the
story.

All in all not a huge deal, I knew when I should have dropped out and
wasn't unhappy about raising preflop with those hole cards. Except for
a staggering blow to my confidence (and I'm sure ego).. The booze
played its part though I wasn't buzzed or drunk at all, I drank normal
tea for most of the night and considered myself sober. Those two Aces
shot what should have been a great night to shreds. It's all their
fault y'know, nothing to do with me. ;) The next hand I folded an 84o
that I would have normally kept until seeing the flop (assuming I
could see it cheap) that turned into 8s over 4s at the flop and a full
house (8s over 4s again) on the turn, with everyone in and raising
like crazy. A few hands later I mucked an AQo that had an A on the
flop and wound up turning into an AKQJT at the river. Both pots were
monsters.

Then I got mad and stuck out with A3o in the pocket (aces over fives
beat my aces over threes), folded late on an AQo that would have taken
the pot, and went all the way on a busted flush/straight.

The rest of the night is unimportant; I wound up $500 ahead due to a
beautiful take with AKo in the hole and a few other small wins, but
going with some recent 'Emotion' topics on this newsgroup I think I
found what is going to be my greatest challenge I'll ever see in the
game: those times when something unexpected is going to shake my
confidence, puncture my ego, cause me embarrasment etc. etc., and how
fast I can shake it off and continue playing at least somewhat
intelligently. I don't know well that's going to go; it took quite a
few hands to get back to normal last night. Generally I'm my own worst
critic so it might be something I'll never conquer. If that's the case
all I have to do is learn to leave the table fast, and not return or
return after I've had time to calm down and think about things.

This is something I plan on giving a lot of thought and attention to,
both for myself and with other players. It just feels like something
that could be common with a lot of people, and I think those of you
who are expert in the game recognize this as well--especially since
there are not one but two references to it in the poker dictionary I
read.

So that's something new to think about for me. There's still a ton of
information coming into my head when I play and it's hard to focus on
one specific thing, even in the free, online games. But I don't think
I'm going to crack that book open until I'm way more competent about
seeing and remembering the games and players. I think I should have
ordered the book on tells anyways, that'll be my next buy.

Some personal information about card games I like:

Best 2 player game: Cribbage and a game I learned called 'Tits', which
I call '17' now. The only person I've ever met that knows how to play
it was the guy that taught me. A rather complicated game that he said
he learned in the navy.

Best 3 player: Hearts (and '17')
Best 4 player: Spades
Best other: Hand and Foot, or maybe Progressive Rummy
Favorite betting game: It was Craps, you know what it is now.
Favorite overall card game: We'll see. ;-)

[Sweet Melissa]

In general, staying to see the flop cheap with hands like 84o is throwing
away money (unless, perhaps, you are in last position or small blind in low
limit game). They say that if you're not seeing a lot of flops/boards that
you would have won if you hadn't folded then you are playing too loose.
Anyway, I think you would benefit from joining www.pokerschoolonline.com -
it is highly regarded within the poker community and has a ton of
information in the form of lessons and message boards. Plus you can find
mentors there. But perhaps the best part is that everyone has a play money
account that they take VERY seriously so it is much better training than the
"no foldem holdem" you will find in regular play money games. You can also
win sponsorships into real money tournaments but that is probably a long way
off ;) Anyway, you might want to check it out.

Melissa

"eggrock" <eggrock@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b5053afd.0308050925.57dfd668@posting.google.com...
> Thanks for the advice everyone. If nobody minds I'd like to keep
> posting to this thread only, a sort of core dump of my thoughts; maybe
> it will come in handy to the next noob that comes along, and I know
> I'll be reading and rereading my thoughts over the next few months if
> not years. Might be enjoyable for those of you who don't remember your
> third day of playing the game, and I'll do my best to try and make
> things interesting.
>
> First, some replies.. Sounds like I'm overly optimistic about my
> winnings potential, maybe I just sat at a decent table and got lucky
> the first time. Wanna bet... I'll get back to you on that one Vince.
>
> The casino I went to gets a rake for each hand, up to $4 (dunno the
> percentage). There are no seat charges or anything like that so it
> shouldn't be too expensive just to play, and cheap at the price if all
> I lose is a few $1-$3 blinds. I think the small blind goes to the bad
> beat pot.
>
> "All players loose their discipline at times and you will not be an
> exception."
>
> Prophetic.... More on this in a bit. (And the 'more on' is a pun
> pointed at myself.)
>
> I did find the RGP FAQ which is extremely well done. I thank everyone
> that worked on it, it's a gem. Outside of any chastisements on this
> thread for not reading it /before/ I posted here--sorry, I paid for
> that little omission by ordering a book before finding out that I may
> have been able to get it for a discount from one of the RGP members.
> (Ordered the S&M '... Advanced' Hold Em book.) Thanks in advance for
> being more gentle to this noob than the folks at comp.lang.perl.misc
> would be. ;-)
>
> I also read one of the dictionaries. Again, well done. I'll do some
> Google searches and see if I can't find the story behind 'Presto!
> Irwin!'..
>
> A couple of questions...
>
> 1) I don't expect to see much of it, but I'm wondering if mentoring is
> common at all in this game. I think some real world feedback from
> someone with real skills would be a good thing.
>
> 2) If #1 is true, how many of you live in the Phoenix area? :-) Or do
> I just need to go to certain online rooms?
>
> About last night.
>
> I've been playing online at pokerroom.com--haven't read much about
> that site here, but it seems decent and connection latency isn't too
> horrible, although I've heard a few complaints about slowness,
> probably from dialup users. You can find me as 'eggrock' in one of the
> top listed $10-20 (play money, ten seat) tables if you feel like
> schooling me.
>
> Last night was a wild ride. I'm old enough to realize that going
> through life is a series of lessons in humility--the only good lesson
> that pride will teach you. I found one in the $10-20 room last night
> but it's going to take some time to learn.
>
> I am and always have been under the impression that there are certain
> things that people can do intuitively, and that you can do anything
> you want until you place restrictions upon yourself. Of course, this
> generally only happens with children since they're the only people
> that don't have (m)any restrictions. Living life tends to
> restrict/train your subconscious and you slowly lose the ability to
> just do something new without thinking about it. I suppose idiot
> savants have an innate ability in certain areas, albeit at a horrible
> cost, and martial arts students train their entire lives learning how
> to consciously control their subconscious.. If you know what I mean.
> Just my opinion.
>
> I have this opinion to some extent about playing Hold Em (and cards in
> general), if I just get into the game and play to my strengths,
> perhaps I can bring a fresh, or at least an unexpected angle to my
> game. (I fully realize how pompous this sounds, sorry if you take it
> that way but I'm just being as honest as I can, not egotistical.)
>
> With this in mind, I spent a good part of the day yesterday reading
> through this newsgroup, primarily reading the FAQ, dictionary and a
> few journals from other people's trips. Highly entertaining but I
> didn't want to get too deep into people's playing strategy or anything
> to lead me astray from the 'intuitive' path. Unfortunately I picked up
> enough to be dangerous, mostly in the ego department.
>
> I came home from the bar last night after a nice meal, a couple of
> beers and a Long Island tea--oops--and had about an hour to play
> online. I logged in with a Billy Badass attitude, I was going to kick
> everybody's butts and take the good memories to sleep with me. First
> hand was a boat, an easy, small-ish pot of $400 or so. A couple hands
> of betting experiments (just to see everyone's reactions) took care of
> around $200 of my play money 'profits'.
>
> Then I got the AA's in the pocket and the ride began. I bet and raised
> before the flop; there were a bunch of people at this table kind
> enough to reraise (all night long) and not too many folds either. Well
> enough, or so I thought. A couple of blanks and a K on the flop, and
> another flurry of raises/reraises. Then a K on the turn. I knew there
> was a cowboy in somebody's pocket, I knew it! The guy who held it may
> as well have typed '*perk*' on the chat line; I knew who he was and I
> knew what was going to happen to me. Like a bad dream where you're
> trying to run from something but can't, I couldn't (read: wouldn't)
> get out of the hand, I had to see it all. Then a blank on the last
> hand and the whole table kept raising and reraising, with me clicking
> 'Call' as my stomach dropped lower and lower. You know the rest of the
> story.
>
> All in all not a huge deal, I knew when I should have dropped out and
> wasn't unhappy about raising preflop with those hole cards. Except for
> a staggering blow to my confidence (and I'm sure ego).. The booze
> played its part though I wasn't buzzed or drunk at all, I drank normal
> tea for most of the night and considered myself sober. Those two Aces
> shot what should have been a great night to shreds. It's all their
> fault y'know, nothing to do with me. ;) The next hand I folded an 84o
> that I would have normally kept until seeing the flop (assuming I
> could see it cheap) that turned into 8s over 4s at the flop and a full
> house (8s over 4s again) on the turn, with everyone in and raising
> like crazy. A few hands later I mucked an AQo that had an A on the
> flop and wound up turning into an AKQJT at the river. Both pots were
> monsters.
>
> Then I got mad and stuck out with A3o in the pocket (aces over fives
> beat my aces over threes), folded late on an AQo that would have taken
> the pot, and went all the way on a busted flush/straight.
>
> The rest of the night is unimportant; I wound up $500 ahead due to a
> beautiful take with AKo in the hole and a few other small wins, but
> going with some recent 'Emotion' topics on this newsgroup I think I
> found what is going to be my greatest challenge I'll ever see in the
> game: those times when something unexpected is going to shake my
> confidence, puncture my ego, cause me embarrasment etc. etc., and how
> fast I can shake it off and continue playing at least somewhat
> intelligently. I don't know well that's going to go; it took quite a
> few hands to get back to normal last night. Generally I'm my own worst
> critic so it might be something I'll never conquer. If that's the case
> all I have to do is learn to leave the table fast, and not return or
> return after I've had time to calm down and think about things.
>
> This is something I plan on giving a lot of thought and attention to,
> both for myself and with other players. It just feels like something
> that could be common with a lot of people, and I think those of you
> who are expert in the game recognize this as well--especially since
> there are not one but two references to it in the poker dictionary I
> read.
>
> So that's something new to think about for me. There's still a ton of
> information coming into my head when I play and it's hard to focus on
> one specific thing, even in the free, online games. But I don't think
> I'm going to crack that book open until I'm way more competent about
> seeing and remembering the games and players. I think I should have
> ordered the book on tells anyways, that'll be my next buy.
>
> Some personal information about card games I like:
>
> Best 2 player game: Cribbage and a game I learned called 'Tits', which
> I call '17' now. The only person I've ever met that knows how to play
> it was the guy that taught me. A rather complicated game that he said
> he learned in the navy.
>
> Best 3 player: Hearts (and '17')
> Best 4 player: Spades
> Best other: Hand and Foot, or maybe Progressive Rummy
> Favorite betting game: It was Craps, you know what it is now.
> Favorite overall card game: We'll see. ;-)

[Gary Carson]

On 5 Aug 2003 10:25:28 -0700, eggrock@yahoo.com (eggrock) wrote:

>
>I did find the RGP FAQ which is extremely well done. I thank everyone
>that worked on it, it's a gem. Outside of any chastisements on this
>thread for not reading it /before/ I posted here--sorry, I paid for
>that little omission by ordering a book before finding out that I may
>have been able to get it for a discount from one of the RGP members.
>(Ordered the S&M '... Advanced' Hold Em book.)

I don't know what the FAQ says about it, but that's one of the worst
choices you could have made.



>
>1) I don't expect to see much of it, but I'm wondering if mentoring
is
>common at all in this game. I think some real world feedback from
>someone with real skills would be a good thing.

No.


the
>top listed $10-20 (play money, ten seat) tables if you feel like
>schooling me.

You aren't going to learn anything other than getting faimilair with
the buttons in the play money games.




Gary Carson

[Greg B]

You've picked up a few basic strategies and you had good session or 2.
Now it's time to go study so you can have that kind of luck on
purpose.

I think you'd get a lot out of the book "Winning Low Limit Hold'em" by
Lee Jones. Sklansky's book "Hold'em Poker" is also quite good, but I
actually like Jones's book better for a beginner. For instance, what
are the odds of hitting that flush on the river? What are the odds if
you have 2 cards left? How do you know if it's worth the risk (hint:
it has to do with a concept called "pot odds"). How does your
position in relation to the blinds and the button effect your play?
(Hint, knowing how to vary your play because of your position is one
of the best skills you can develop at this stage). Is Jack Ten suited
a good starting hand? What if it wasn't suited, how much worse is it?

These are the kinds of things that you need to really understand
before you can really be a "player". But the good news is that it's
fun to learn this stuff.

I would suggest you get Jones's book and perhaps Sklansky's book and
then Don't Get Any More Books until you've read each of these cover to
cover at least 3 times. Practice and practice at the tables or
on-line.

Then get books like Sklansy's "Advanced Hold'em Poker" and "Theory of
Poker". As you've noticed, the fancy plays (check raiseing,
semi-bluffing, bluffing, etc.) don't work as well at lower limit games
because nobody's smart enough to be scared into folding their hand.
So it will be much more important that you understand the first two
books before you study any of the advanced stuff.

Remember, good luck comes to those who are best prepared to receive
it.

Hope it helps.

Greg

[Stephen Gorrell]

> >>top listed $10-20 (play money, ten seat) tables if you feel like
> >>schooling me.
> >
> >
> > You aren't going to learn anything other than getting faimilair with
> > the buttons in the play money games.
>
> Well, that's not entirely true. Newbies need to practice reading the
> board and figuring out what the nut hands are, whether there's a
> straight possible, etc. This is a lot cheaper to do in a play money
> game, and because it goes so slow, you have lots of time to think.
>
> Lin
>
Just be sure to forget any kind of strategy you developed for winning at the
play money tables before you try real money. They can be real expensive when
you're up against people who actually care whether they win or loose. Once
you're familiar with game mechanics jump into the very low limit real money
games and start playing. Here are some other things I experienced switching
to real money that you may see as well.

When I started playing real money I was very cautious and actually won a
bit. After three or four days I got more comfortable and started playing
more hands, and began to loose. It was all bad beats and bad cards and
getting my good hands sucked out. The problem had to be bots or shills
getting just the card they needed to beat me. So I went from UB to Stars to
Party, then back to UB, then back to Party. But I did keep playing, and kept
reading, and after awhile it sank in that I was making a lot of bad plays,
and that I lucked out about as often as anybody else (but I only remembered
theirs), and that a two-day run of bad cards followed by two hours of
can't-miss hands was just normal variance. So I focused on my play and on
making the best of whatever I was getting, and haven't had any problems
since.

Well, almost no problems. There was getting knocked out of four freeking Sit
'n Go's in a row on pair vs. 2 overcard coin toss all-ins. What are the odds
on that! (1 in 8) I just know the damn site is cheating me. Of course, the
fact that I played poorly and got myself into situations where I had to go
all-in with a short stack four times in a row in the first place has nothing
to do with it...

Have fun!
--Steve

[eggrock]

Thank you all, your advice is invaluable.

I'm going to Vegas! Friends invited us along at the end of the month, a
cheap flight and comped rooms (due to the friends' massive slot habits.) A
cheap trip all the way around. This'll be a good learning experience, the
only question is which tables to hit first, the high stakes or the really
high stakes? jk, I'll only allow myself to lose $300 or so so it should be a
(comparatively) boring trip compared to some of the insanity I've read
around here.

I can't believe Caesar's isn't listed as having tables... I loved the
atmosphere there (went and got hitched at the Rio a couple years ago.. Liked
the chapel, hated the casino). I definitely have to hit the Nugget as well,
slightly blurred memories but it was all good, except for the idiot who
gambled away everything he had downtown and had a wee bit of trouble making
it back to the Rio.

[eggrock]

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Played pretty bad, down $80 in five hours of play. Did a few good things,
learned a bunch. Well worth playing...

Gila River has a ladies only tournament on Saturdays, starting at noon. I
show up around 10:30 AM and find myself heavily outnumbered by the ladies.
At least I'll know that I'll enjoy myself! (This is somewhat tongue-in-cheek
since the average age was around 180 to my 32...) So I sit down in seat 8
(of 9) and start playing. To my left is the person most likely to drop out
first in the tournament, heavy sighs, deck change requests, playing out of
position. Two seats to my right is the six-million dollar woman, a really
old lady with terrible eyesight; she had to hold the cards about 4 inches
from her face to read them. How did she see the community cards you ask?
Well, she had this crazy looking magnifier clipped to her glasses and looked
through that to see the flop/turn/river. High tech. If she got her cards she
stayed very still and blinked once, if she missed she shook a little and
blinked rapidly.

I got really bored at this table and played a few hands I probably
shouldn't, pocket 33 for example. Got down far enough in my initial stack
that I had to go 'all in', but won with a full house that I shouldn't have
(tens full of aces). Most of the time was spent discarding 72o and the like
and watching them all eat breakfast while they played, or else walk around
right before it was their turn to bet. SLOW...

Then the ladies went to play the tournament and I moved to a $3-6 that was
about half full of people waiting for a $4-8 to open up. I had a pretty
short stack but wanted to see how long I could last with it, can you say
scared money. Raise-reraise on nearly every flop by the $4-8 guys, but they
were backing it up with good cards. I spent the entire time trying to
remember the line from "The Crow", something like, "I feel like a little
fish in a big effing pond." Didn't have any cards to really play and didn't
want to try bluffing these huge raisers. Definitely a new experience, I
literally felt scared of these guys and knew (or at least felt) that I was
out of my league. The things a big stack of chips can do for/against you.
They finally left and the game "settled down", most people (including
myself) relaxing visibly.

It was a fairly tight table, not a ton of showdowns at all and even some
blind steals. The guy to my left went 'hmmm' EVERY TIME HE EXHALED. A nice
guy but an incredibly annoying habit. Took me a few minutes before I could
tone it out so it was relaxing instead of annoying. I again spent nearly the
rest of the time mucking garbage, but everything to note happened at this
table. I sat in seat 5 which I really didn't like--I like to be at the ends
so I can see everything better.

First was Anita the dealer. Seats 4 and 7 betting. KTx-x-J up, showdown. The
guy to my immediate right (seat 4) shows AQ, seat 7 shows KJ. Seat 7 had
just pushed in $12 to call and Anita the dealer says "Take it all back",
thinking KKJJ won the pot. Nobody else says anything! I was speechless but
managed to point at AQ, who finally stirs and says he has a straight. Anita
takes a few seconds (felt like days) to figure it out, then makes #7 put his
$12 back in the post and passes it to #4. The next ten minutes were spent
discussing, which sucked.

Next was fishboy in #2 going up against an elderly gent in #9. Four clubs
showing on the board, fishboy bets, gent raises and fishboy mucks. Gent
chuckles quietly and flashes a black ace to the dealer. I couldn't tell if
it was clubs or spades, just saw black.

"Nuts", I ask?

"Nuts" was the reply. Dealer nods and smiles.

Well, fishboy took exception to the fact that #9 only showed one card but
not the second and makes a huge effing deal out of it. Since he folded
anyways the guy didn't have to show anything at all. But fishboy gets even
madder and claims the whole board knew that #9 had a flush anyways, so why
should he show anything at all.. Kind of told me something and probably the
rest of the table as well. Several hands later I flop two hearts holding 68h
from the BB, decide to go for a flush (which very few people were doing) and
take fishboy for a bet-raise-reraise ride into minimum stack status. He
seemed a bit grumpy that an 8-high flush beat his ace-high hand and left
shortly thereafter. I wish he'd have stayed.

I shook like Jesse Ventura on that 68h hand /after/ I won it. I figured I
was going to get clobbered, but nobody had been going for flushes all day
and I figured fishboy was a sucker for it. First time I really ever played a
person rather than just the cards. Nice to have been right.

I made good (but probably scared) play when I stayed in with Kxo as BB,
flopped KKJ and then got the hell out after a couple blanks showed up and
someone who hadn't done anything started betting. His pocket JJ took the pot
and I got out cheap.

The 'Hmmm' guy made a nice play on one hand, raising preflop with AKs (I
think) and knocking a few out, then taking a decent pot that he probably
wouldn't have except for his well-timed raise. We talked about that about a
half hour later, I thought'd he'd done well (and so did he). He tried that a
few times later with mixed results.

That's the good.

The bad was getting crap cards all day, took around 2 hours to get my first
ace. That won the hand for me but I had A9o and probably should have chucked
it anyways. Got A9 on the flop which was good enough to take a moderate pot.
Probably a bad play--the point is is that I generally didn't have much for
the entire day, lots of stuff like J4o, 45o etc. etc. Didn't bet out on
anything and lose, didn't muck anything (except a 69s once, and something
like 83o) that would have won. Except...

The ugly.

First, I had 93o and was the BB, a 'normal' hand for the day. 4-5 people
stayed in to look at the cards, and we ALL checked all the way to and
through the river. Obviously none of us knew how to 'steal'. :-) We all show
our cards--no we didn't, everyone but me showed their cards, I saw KQ in two
people's hand and threw away what would have been the winning hand (pair of
3s). Worse was that it took me a good twenty seconds to figure out what I'd
done. Gets my #1 vote for most foolish, stupid play of the day. It's even
worse because I mucked them just so no one would see what a 'bad' hand I
had, even though it only cost me a BB to stay in.

Never again. It's tough just admitting it, but now I'll have it somewhere
where I can read about it in perpetuity as a constant remider.

Thus ended my incredible poker win streak (at 1 in a row). Heh.

My big learning experience was with reading other people, seeing the betting
strategy of the 'big money' ($4-8) players, and with "Hmmm"'s preflop
betting strategy. I also see a big need to play online as much as I can,
just so I can more quickly recognize hands/possibilities and the like.

My S&M poker book came in the mail so I have plenty of time to read up
before I head to Vegas. I'll pick up a book or three there as well..