Rushing the Game Along??

[Gary Leddering]

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and what to do to keep
it from happening again.

This past Saturday was my first time playing hold 'em in the San Diego, CA
area. I will not mention the casino by name at this time. I live just
east of LA and usually play at the Bike and Commerce. I've been playing
ring games regularly for the past 4-5 years. I am a low-limit player.

So there I was at the 3-6 table in this San Diego area casino...
I'm holding JJ
The flop came J-7-A.
UTG opened...
+1 and 2 called...
I reach down and grab six chips to raise...

As I look up and toss them in the pot I notice that the player to my left
has folded and the one to his left has put in his call. On top of that
the dealer has already burned a card and is in the process of flipping the
turn?!?!

So I ask the dealer "woah, woah you jumped right passed me?"
He replies "No I didn't, you called..."
"I did??"
"Yeah you did by grabbing your chips. I saw you grab three of them"
"So that's a call to you?? Your guess as to how many chips are in my hand
is a call? I raise" I said and I pushed my chips "furhter" into the pot.

At this point UTG flies off the handle...He gets up out of his chair and
starts screaming at me "you can't be doing that sh#@, you cheating such
and such!!"
"Cheating" I reply "I'm just trying to raise a bet. How the hell is that
cheating?"

Of course then he insults me as a rookie and tells me I have no idea how
to play and he's been playing since I was breastfeeding and so on and so
forth. He finally calms himself and sits down.

At this point though angry I'm resigned. So I say to the dealer "fine, if
that's how you run your table then I retract my raise and call."

Unfortunately that wasn't the end of it. Within the next 20-30 minutes
this happened once more to myself and once to another gentleman as well.

The second time it happened to me I was again in a middle position. The
flop comes and I'm taking a look at it. Couldn't have been more than 10
seconds or so. Then the dealer says "your three dollars sir". "My three
dollars? I'm not in this hand" I replied and flip him the cards. In the
10 seconds or so that I was looking at the cards, UTG+1 had opened and
three other players (two before and one after) had called. He had gone
right passed me again assuming that I was calling. I couldn't believe it.
I was livid. So was the guy that was UTG the first time this happened.
He starts screaming at me again.

My question here is this. Am I out of line for being upset? Am I in the
wrong here? I am of the opinion that the dealer should stop at you and
wait for either (1) your cards, (2) a bet or (3) a knock for a check.
With that said I do realize that the game needs to keep flowing and I'm
not trying to hold it up by any means but the dealer interpreting what my
intentions are is in my opinion unexcusable. It just seems like these
dealers just want to rush these games right along without so much time to
the player as to give the cards a thought.

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[.B.]

"Gary Leddering" <anonymous@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f3ac93e$0$15179$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else and what to do to keep
> it from happening again.

<snip>

> My question here is this. Am I out of line for being upset? Am I in the
> wrong here? I am of the opinion that the dealer should stop at you and
> wait for either (1) your cards, (2) a bet or (3) a knock for a check.
> With that said I do realize that the game needs to keep flowing and I'm
> not trying to hold it up by any means but the dealer interpreting what my
> intentions are is in my opinion unexcusable. It just seems like these
> dealers just want to rush these games right along without so much time to
> the player as to give the cards a thought.


I'd like to know the name of the Casino so I don't play there on business
trips.

[Jon W]

Of course the dealer was wrong.
You needed to call a floorperson. If you do not agree with what a dealer
has done, you ask them for a floormans decisiom. The plyaer getting up
and making a big stink about things calling you names, was way out of
line and this should have been taken care of by the floor person also.

Why didn't you ask the dealer to call for a decision? I actually find
your post a little hard to believe because you never asked for the floor
person.

Posted From http://OnlinePokerRooms.com Card Room News - Critical
Reviews - Dialogue

[Bing]

On 13 Aug 2003 23:26:54 GMT, "Gary Leddering" <anonymous@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> the dealer has already burned a card and is in the process of flipping the
> turn?!?!

> So I ask the dealer "woah, woah you jumped right passed me?"
> He replies "No I didn't, you called..."

"Nope. I raised. Look, there are six chips in the pot."

If there is any further debate, calmly announce that you want
the floor called and are willing to wait for a camera review.

> At this point UTG flies off the handle...He gets up out of his chair and
> starts screaming at me "you can't be doing that sh#@, you cheating such
> and such!!"

"Let's let the floor decide, sir."

> "Cheating" I reply "I'm just trying to raise a bet. How the hell is that
> cheating?"

Bad idea. Now you are getting upset. No good will come from this if
everyone involved is upset.

> At this point though angry I'm resigned. So I say to the dealer "fine, if
> that's how you run your table then I retract my raise and call."

Again, bad idea. There is no need to get upset, but there is also
no need to back down. You properly raised and that's the only
way this can end. Calmly make it clear that you will insist on
every level of review until the situation is resolved properly.

When this sinks in, the dealer, floor, and other players will
back down rather than waste an hour of everyone's time.

> Unfortunately that wasn't the end of it. Within the next 20-30 minutes
> this happened once more to myself and once to another gentleman as well.

Calmly repeat your protests.

> Then the dealer says "your three dollars sir". "My three
> dollars? I'm not in this hand" I replied and flip him the cards. In the
> 10 seconds or so that I was looking at the cards, UTG+1 had opened and
> three other players (two before and one after) had called. He had gone
> right passed me again assuming that I was calling.

I don't understand. The dealer is pointing to you. How are you
accusing the dealer of going past you again?

Unless you mean the next player. In that event, tough noogies if
he jumps the gun and plays out of turn. I hope the fellows after
him in the pot, who were fooled into playing early, meet him in
the parking lot after the game.

> I was livid.

Calm down.

> My question here is this. Am I out of line for being upset?

Yes.

> Am I in the wrong here?

No.

> I am of the opinion that the dealer should stop at you and
> wait for either (1) your cards, (2) a bet or (3) a knock for a check.

Right. And, according to your post, the dealer recognized that you
are a little slower than normal and was paying attention the
second time. He was patiently waiting for you. The only thing the
dealer could have done better was to make an attempt to stop the
out-of-turn action past you.

> With that said I do realize that the game needs to keep flowing and I'm
> not trying to hold it up by any means but the dealer interpreting what my
> intentions are is in my opinion unexcusable.

No. A good dealer will try to learn the habits of the players and
try to anticipate problems. If a player is habitually slow, the
dealer should recognize this and accomodate it. If the player is
new, the dealer should explain the options to him as it becomes
their turn to act. If the player is nearly blind, the dealer
should call out the board cards or deal them out slightly closer
to that player.

> It just seems like these
> dealers just want to rush these games right along without so much time to
> the player as to give the cards a thought.

Well, with the toke and all, they do get paid by the hand. You
can really blame them for trying.

-- Bing Monopoly Expansion Set
Visit us at http://www.paxentertainment.com

[Debbie in Ohio]

Jon W <NotHere@none.com> wrote in message
news:3f3bb717$0$199$75868355@news.frii.net...
> Of course the dealer was wrong.
> You needed to call a floorperson. If you do not agree with what a dealer
> has done, you ask them for a floormans decisiom. The plyaer getting up
> and making a big stink about things calling you names, was way out of
> line and this should have been taken care of by the floor person also.
>
> Why didn't you ask the dealer to call for a decision? I actually find
> your post a little hard to believe because you never asked for the floor
> person.
>
> Posted From http://OnlinePokerRooms.com Card Room News - Critical
> Reviews - Dialogue

Don't be so quick to judge the original poster there.

Some of us are NEWBIES to the game, and especially to live poker games, and
do not always KNOW we have the right to call a floor person.

See my story about my first time last Sunday, playing live in a Casino,
titled,

Newbie question: Please explain Straddle in Detail

thread to see what I mean.

I had a very rude dealer, and didn't know any better that I could call a
floorperson.

That's the problem about being a newbie, you don't always know all the
rules, right off the bat.

That's why IMO, if you're experienced poker player, IMO, if you see a newbie
being abused, especially by the dealer ... perhaps you should speak up FOR
them as well.

IMO, it's the right thing to do.

Debbie in Ohio

[Michael Langford]

> Unfortunately that wasn't the end of it. Within the next 20-30 minutes
> this happened once more to myself and once to another gentleman as well.

At this point you say "Please get the floorman". Explain what is
happening. If he is unsympathetic, always say time as soon as the
person before you has acted. Then do your action when you would do
your action. Leave as soon as the game stops being superlatively good.

--Michael