Fold a set of jacks?

[Linda K Sherman]

My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.

There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
calls, the reraiser calls.

Flop is AKJo.

Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?

Linda Sherman

[Tad Perry]

"Linda K Sherman" <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message
news:3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?

Stay in and wait for the fourth Jack to show up.

tvp

[Aaron H]

it all depends on the 4th and 5th card. with 3 jacks, id stay in the whole
hand, he may raise on a pair of aces.

Aaron

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Remove no spam when making a personal reply
"Linda K Sherman" <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message
news:3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman
>

[The Beet Man]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:55:43 GMT, Linda K Sherman <dimsbam@pwy.com>
wrote:

>My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
>open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
>There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
>calls, the reraiser calls.
>
>Flop is AKJo.
>
>Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
>raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?

I would have left the somewhat rockish .25/.50 game and looked for a
better one.

[Ken Lovering]

The opponents either both have AK or AA & KK or QQ, or are colluding. I've
never laid down a set....I've also never played poker on national
television.......

"Linda K Sherman" <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message
news:3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman
>

[Grant Peacock]

My first reaction was keep playing. This is tough though. If you can
figure out the right play here on the spot you're ready to move up
from .25-.50!! They could both have AK, I think. I won't be suprised
at all to be shown AA or KK or both, but AK and AK won't be a shocker
so I have to stay in. I know, there are people who can't re-raise
without AA/KK, and there are even more people who can't cap it without
one of those. So, playing with people you know, you could have a
fold.

If (big if) we assume they would both play as they have with AA/KK/AK,
then you will win 40% of the time (left as an excercise) -- so you
have a value raise, haha. I think the first re-raiser is definitely
playing like he has AK. Let's guess the chances that the other guy
would cap and 3-bet if he had AK. We don't know him -- all different
sorts of people play .25-.50. A lot of players would have slowed
down, surely. However, the [raise any in turn] box is often a reverse
tell, so he could be trying to slow down the action since he is afraid
his AK is no good. Oh well let's wing it and say that 50% of people
could have AK here. So, your chances of winning are down to 20%. But
they should be bumped up a bit from there because of the minute chance
that the 4-better could be overplaying other hands like QQ, TT, AQ,
AJ, AT, even pure garbage. Still, that 50% was optomistic so let's
say 20% of the pot is yours, on average.

Now: How much is it going to cost to see this hand through? Well if
they have the dreaded KK AA, a lot! How would you like it if you
call, middle guy calls so we all payed 3 bets to see the turn. Now on
the turn it goes check check bet, call raise raise, to you? Ugh. I'd
say you can safely fold now. Other times they might play it slower,
and suck perhaps 4 big bets out of you. On the other hand, if you do
have the best hand, not as many bets are going into the pot. Probably
one on each street, lets say. So if you win, you might gain as little
as 15 big bets.

Well, I've done a lot of work to produce this: If you call you'll
lose about $2.00 about 80% of the time, and gain about $8.00 about 20%
of the time. I know, that really helped. Call if you don't mind
variance and don't want to be pushed around. Maybe fold if you have a
small bankroll.

So, what won?

OOPS I just noticed you asked for experts. Forget everything I said.

Linda K Sherman <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message news:<3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com>...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman

[goin2vegas03]

I would cap it on the flop, then bet out on the turn. If you get beat by
an overset, it is not your lucky day. Given the wide array of hands that
would raise and reraise you here on the flop, I just don't think laying
down here is right.



On Aug 21 2003 7:01PM, Linda K Sherman wrote:

> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[paul]

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:55:43 GMT, Linda K Sherman <dimsbam@pwy.com>
wrote:

>My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
>open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
>There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
>calls, the reraiser calls.
>
>Flop is AKJo.
>
>Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
>raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>

cap the flop, and then probably bet the turn, if the turn gets 3 bet
then I'm worried. if another A or K hits I would back off and call
down. they are likely to have either a higher set or AK. if it was a
loose game I'd be worried about the straight, but not here.

--paul

[wamplerr]

"Flop is AKJo.

Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?"

I think AK and AK are possible, or AK and AQ, AK and AJ, maybe even KQ
for someone. You might slow down, fold if an ace hits, probably fold if
a 10 hits, that's a really tough call. So what did the others have?

Anyway I was watching Hellmuth (#1_lucky_one or whatever his name was)
at the WCOOP, I'm wondering if anyone else saw this hand.
There's maybe 20 people left, this was right before he went on a huge
rush to take a pretty big chip lead. He's got maybe 100,000, and he has
JJ, I don't know how the pre-flop betting went, but it was heads up with
a bigger stack, I'm guessing Hellmuth called pre-flop. The big stack
has KK. Hellmuth had position.

Flop is A high. I'm pretty sure they both checked. K on the turn.
Again the both checked. J on the end. Set of Kings made a really tiny
bet on the end, just praying to get paid. I wish I remembered
specifics, I'm going to say the bet on the end was $12,000, into a pot
that was probably $30,000+. Hellmuth doesn't raise him, just calls. Of
course he goes on afterwards about how if he had the KK, the other guy
would have gone broke with his JJ, etc. (If anyone had any doubt it was
Phil H. playing, this hand should have been his tell).

Discounting a Q10, the only hands that beat him are AA and KK, and the
guy makes a super small bet on the end which is begging to be raised,
and Hellmuth doesn't go for it. I thought it was pretty damn amazing.
I was talking to a friend on IM at the time, and I said "How does this
guy ever accumulate chips if he plays his hands so passively." I think
he busted someone with KK soon after, and then built his stack to $400k
which was pretty much double any other chip leader. Anyone else see
this hand?

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[JNRI]

You can't respond to this like its a real game...25/.50 games are COFFEE
MONEY. I constantly am amazed
how people will complain about irrational raises, calling stations, and
badly played hands in these levels.

IMO most people playing these games are beginners and their logic is
suspect, or they just don't care because
the money involved is not really a factor. They will make their next car
payment even if they lose this hand.

BTW I had the SAME EXACT situation last night in a Limit HE tourney on
stars. I put them on two pair
at best but assumed they both had an ace. I pushed it every chance I had
and won a huge pot. One guy
had AQs and one guy had AKo. Somebody who folded preflop to the capped bet
cried because he folded
10-9.

I ended up getting stomped later by an AK when I had JJ and both the turn
and river were aces. Live by
the jacks, die by the jacks.. I personally hate them.

JNRI


"Linda K Sherman" <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message
news:3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman
>

[Bill Reich]

Linda K Sherman <dimsbam@pwy.com> wrote in message news:<3F45B05E.5070801@pwy.com>...
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman

I am going to answer BEFORE the experts get a chance. I would fold
like a shot. If neither of them has me beat, I will have a story to
tell. AA and KK are really very likely. After last years WSoP, QT is
not impossiwoggle at these stakes if someone was having fun. She has
one out. I would love to see an expert with a different opinion as I
THINK that this answer is obvious.

--
Will in New Haven

[psandler]

I agree--cap it and bet the turn. If the turn bet is raised and
re-raised, I would lay it down. Considering the pre-flop action and
the "rocky" description, I can't imagine anyone raising a turn bet with
less than KK.



Cheers,

Phil


goin2vegas03 wrote:
> *I would cap it on the flop, then bet out on the turn. If you get
> beat by
> an overset, it is not your lucky day. Given the wide array of hands
> that
> would raise and reraise you here on the flop, I just don't think
> laying
> down here is right.
>
>
>
> On Aug 21 2003 7:01PM, Linda K Sherman wrote:
>
> > My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game
> and
> > open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
> >
> > There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds.
> She
> > calls, the reraiser calls.
> >
> > Flop is AKJo.
> >
> > Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit
> the
> > raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do
> here?
> >
> > Linda Sherman
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://tinyurl.com/jgce *


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[Linda K Sherman]

Linda K Sherman wrote:
> My sister's playing a somewhat rockish .25/.50 online hold'em game and
> open-raises in mid-position with a pair of jacks.
>
> There's a reraise and a rereraise behind her. Everyone else folds. She
> calls, the reraiser calls.
>
> Flop is AKJo.
>
> Sis bets, raise, reraise like a shot, i.e., they may have both hit the
> raise button before it was their turn. What would you experts do here?
>
> Linda Sherman

As the subject line suggested, my sister folded. Keep in mind that she
learned to play poker about two weeks ago by reading Lee Jones' book and
has yet to actually touch a deck of cards: she's been playing entirely
online.

If Poker Stove is to be trusted, then even if Sandy's opponents are
hyperrocks who would only have AA, KK, or AK, her pot equity is 38.6%
and she's a small money favorite, so it looks right to at least call it
down. You'd have to be pretty certain you're up against AA or KK to fold.

Linda Sherman

[wamplerr]

Were her Jacks good?

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[Grant Peacock]

Yeah what kind of "results" were these?

wamplerr <wamplerr@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3f46c5b6$0$193$75868355@news.frii.net>...
> Were her Jacks good?
>
> ** Posted via RGP ACCESS at http://www.LiveActionPoker.com
>
> ** $100 Deposit Bonus at http://www.FabulousPoker.com