Re: Irrational People

[Siam]

>Subject: Re: Irrational People
>From: "O-PGManager" anonymous@online-pokerguide.com
>Date: 9/18/2003 11:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <3f69feb3$0$51800$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>
>
>Excellent post, Siam, to put it bluntly, these people who bring their
>"evidence" to the board to "prove" rigged sites are total idiots.

At first I entitled my post 'people are dumb' but I thought better of it. I
have fallen into that trap of perception being reality too. I have commented
on how service at a place is horrible when it really might be one person not
doing their job. I blanket the whole company though. If someone told me that,
I could at least realize the assumption I made and revise it. People here
though hold on to their 'reality' as the absolute 'truth' and won't even
realize that maybe their impression was wrong.

>
>Are they idiotic because they are skeptical of the integrity of these
>sites? Absolutely not. They are idiotic because they believe a few
>anecdotes and personal perceptions are a worthy logical argument to be
>presented to an audience.

Human nature. But as humans we should have the ability to reconsider our
initial impressions. And you and I have to realize where they are coming from.

None of them would bother to do any sort of
>statistical analysis (and it wouldn't take millions of hands, a few
>hundred would probably do) because they have absolutely no concept of
>statistics.

Lol. Agree here. It is a lot easier to post a few hands and scream then sit
down with thousands of hand histories, put them through Crystal Forecasting (an
Excel add-on), figure out significant levels and standard deviations and then
test it again and again. If someone could that, I would certainly listen.

>
>These are the same people who bitch and moan at the guy on 3rd base in
>Blackjack who splits his 10's/takes a bad hit and takes the dealers bust
>card. They blame him for the loss, forgetting every time this bad play
>actually made them money when it ended up causing a dealer bust. As their
>losses pile up, they blame him for throwing off "the flow of the cards."

Oh man, is that the truth.


>They study the different Roulette electronic boards like they are stock
>charts. They believe slot machines get "hot". They are clueless, they
>will never point at themselves for their monetary misfortunes, they are
>typical Poker players and typical GAMBLERS. It is no surprise they are
>running amok on this board.
>

I think this sums up the lack of personal responsibility people feel. It is
always someone else. You never see people posting that they were outplayed.
Nah, just scream about one hand and that will summarize all of online poker.

It is more interesting for me to see how human nature plays out on this board.
And realize this goes on in life.

The blame game!

Cheers

>O-PG



>
>------------------------------------------
>Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
>http://www.online-pokerguide.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sep 18 2003 2:30PM, Siam wrote:
>
>> Jesus, how many people are going to keep posting how 'xyz' online site is
>> rigged because they lost with 'XY' hand vs. 'AB' hand.
>>
>> Or, I played for 'x' hours online and I have never seen anything like that
>in
>> all my years in 'z' brick and mortar.
>>
>> Proof would be some type of code disclosure or gathering hundreds of
>thousands
>> of hands and showing the expectation was more than 4 SD's from the average.
>
>>
>> And finally -- if you really believe it, don't play online. Just learn how
>to
>> form an argument with proof vs. what you think.
>>
>> Ah, the irony. This is only what I think. But I have studied statistical
>> measures and psychology and I am a winning online and B&M player so I know
>a
>> little bit of what I am talking about.
>>
>> People over empahsis events that happen to them personally. They are
>biased
>> and cannot look at the situation objectively.
>>
>> Many people have an irrational fear of flying. Even though it is
>significantly
>> more likely that you will die driving, many people refuse to fly. And they
>> know the statistics, yet they still refuse to fly.
>>
>> Cheers
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[BlakeC]

I have to say that after reading all these posts I think people need to
take responsiblity for their bad poker descions. Any long time poker
player has had bad beats, but most of the posts i see had clear warning
signs that they were beat or at least had strong competition all the way
to the river.

It is not unheard of for people to stay to the river on a flush draw with
only one suited card in the hole, people bluff and make their hands, some
people are just too loose in online games. Over all though I find if i
watch my opponents and play them as well as looking at statistics, I know
when I have to lay down my AA or KK. I have had some bad beats, but i also
have seen these hands hold up well. People get too over confident with
these holdings.

I think most of the bable about online being rigged is just people
complaining because they didn't see that they were beaten. So what if AA
comes up 5 times in one game? how is this rigged if you got that hand
once? So what if your AA got busted by K8? haven't you ever had a mediocer
hand and won on the river?

I love it when I crack AA on a bluff. Don't you? At least it was k8 and
not 72 or some other BS hand.

As for rigging in the site, people are asking what proof we have that they
aren't, well at least some of the sites have been audited by outside
people, and as far as the others, if you are concerend boycot their site
until they get an audit.

I have been very happy with my experiences online and find that the
looseness of others just brings more wins to me in the long run.

An old ZEN saying, "When Two Tigers Fight, one is injures and the other
dies"
Why not be the third tiger who comes in and picks up the pieces after the
loose players kill each other?

good luck to all.

Blake

On Sep 18 2003 5:30AM, Siam wrote:

> >Subject: Re: Irrational People
> >From: "O-PGManager" anonymous@online-pokerguide.com
> >Date: 9/18/2003 11:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <3f69feb3$0$51800$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>
> >
> >Excellent post, Siam, to put it bluntly, these people who bring their
> >"evidence" to the board to "prove" rigged sites are total idiots.
>
> At first I entitled my post 'people are dumb' but I thought better of it. I
> have fallen into that trap of perception being reality too. I have commented
> on how service at a place is horrible when it really might be one person not
> doing their job. I blanket the whole company though. If someone told me
that,
> I could at least realize the assumption I made and revise it. People here
> though hold on to their 'reality' as the absolute 'truth' and won't even
> realize that maybe their impression was wrong.
>
> >
> >Are they idiotic because they are skeptical of the integrity of these
> >sites? Absolutely not. They are idiotic because they believe a few
> >anecdotes and personal perceptions are a worthy logical argument to be
> >presented to an audience.
>
> Human nature. But as humans we should have the ability to reconsider our
> initial impressions. And you and I have to realize where they are coming
from.
>
> None of them would bother to do any sort of
> >statistical analysis (and it wouldn't take millions of hands, a few
> >hundred would probably do) because they have absolutely no concept of
> >statistics.
>
> Lol. Agree here. It is a lot easier to post a few hands and scream then sit
> down with thousands of hand histories, put them through Crystal Forecasting
(an
> Excel add-on), figure out significant levels and standard deviations and then
> test it again and again. If someone could that, I would certainly listen.
>
> >
> >These are the same people who bitch and moan at the guy on 3rd base in
> >Blackjack who splits his 10's/takes a bad hit and takes the dealers bust
> >card. They blame him for the loss, forgetting every time this bad play
> >actually made them money when it ended up causing a dealer bust. As their
> >losses pile up, they blame him for throwing off "the flow of the cards."
>
> Oh man, is that the truth.
>
>
> >They study the different Roulette electronic boards like they are stock
> >charts. They believe slot machines get "hot". They are clueless, they
> >will never point at themselves for their monetary misfortunes, they are
> >typical Poker players and typical GAMBLERS. It is no surprise they are
> >running amok on this board.
> >
>
> I think this sums up the lack of personal responsibility people feel. It is
> always someone else. You never see people posting that they were outplayed.
> Nah, just scream about one hand and that will summarize all of online poker.
>
> It is more interesting for me to see how human nature plays out on this
board.
> And realize this goes on in life.
>
> The blame game!
>
> Cheers
>
> >O-PG
>
>
>
> >
> >------------------------------------------
> >Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
> >http://www.online-pokerguide.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sep 18 2003 2:30PM, Siam wrote:
> >
> >> Jesus, how many people are going to keep posting how 'xyz' online site is
> >> rigged because they lost with 'XY' hand vs. 'AB' hand.
> >>
> >> Or, I played for 'x' hours online and I have never seen anything like that
> >in
> >> all my years in 'z' brick and mortar.
> >>
> >> Proof would be some type of code disclosure or gathering hundreds of
> >thousands
> >> of hands and showing the expectation was more than 4 SD's from the
average.
> >
> >>
> >> And finally -- if you really believe it, don't play online. Just learn
how
> >to
> >> form an argument with proof vs. what you think.
> >>
> >> Ah, the irony. This is only what I think. But I have studied statistical
> >> measures and psychology and I am a winning online and B&M player so I know
> >a
> >> little bit of what I am talking about.
> >>
> >> People over empahsis events that happen to them personally. They are
> >biased
> >> and cannot look at the situation objectively.
> >>
> >> Many people have an irrational fear of flying. Even though it is
> >significantly
> >> more likely that you will die driving, many people refuse to fly. And
they
> >> know the statistics, yet they still refuse to fly.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Siam]

>Subject: Re: Irrational People
>From: "BlakeC" anonymous@tierasyl.com
>Date: 9/18/2003 1:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <3f6a0ec5$0$185$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>

Or, these people don't realize how much of their winnings come from people
playing that K-8o ten times and losing vs. the one time they win it and they
get to see.

You rarely see unless they called to the river and showed their cards (or you
check hand histories) how much of your wins comes from those same lousy plays.

If you have A-A, you should be screaming for that K-8 to come after you. Do
you want everyone to fold pre-flop and just take down the measly blinds???

Cheers

>
>I have to say that after reading all these posts I think people need to
>take responsiblity for their bad poker descions. Any long time poker
>player has had bad beats, but most of the posts i see had clear warning
>signs that they were beat or at least had strong competition all the way
>to the river.
>
>It is not unheard of for people to stay to the river on a flush draw with
>only one suited card in the hole, people bluff and make their hands, some
>people are just too loose in online games. Over all though I find if i
>watch my opponents and play them as well as looking at statistics, I know
>when I have to lay down my AA or KK. I have had some bad beats, but i also
>have seen these hands hold up well. People get too over confident with
>these holdings.
>
>I think most of the bable about online being rigged is just people
>complaining because they didn't see that they were beaten. So what if AA
>comes up 5 times in one game? how is this rigged if you got that hand
>once? So what if your AA got busted by K8? haven't you ever had a mediocer
>hand and won on the river?
>
>I love it when I crack AA on a bluff. Don't you? At least it was k8 and
>not 72 or some other BS hand.
>
>As for rigging in the site, people are asking what proof we have that they
>aren't, well at least some of the sites have been audited by outside
>people, and as far as the others, if you are concerend boycot their site
>until they get an audit.
>
>I have been very happy with my experiences online and find that the
>looseness of others just brings more wins to me in the long run.
>
>An old ZEN saying, "When Two Tigers Fight, one is injures and the other
>dies"
>Why not be the third tiger who comes in and picks up the pieces after the
>loose players kill each other?
>
>good luck to all.
>
>Blake
>
>On Sep 18 2003 5:30AM, Siam wrote:
>
>> >Subject: Re: Irrational People
>> >From: "O-PGManager" anonymous@online-pokerguide.com
>> >Date: 9/18/2003 11:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
>> >Message-id: <3f69feb3$0$51800$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>
>> >
>> >Excellent post, Siam, to put it bluntly, these people who bring their
>> >"evidence" to the board to "prove" rigged sites are total idiots.
>>
>> At first I entitled my post 'people are dumb' but I thought better of it.
>I
>> have fallen into that trap of perception being reality too. I have
>commented
>> on how service at a place is horrible when it really might be one person
>not
>> doing their job. I blanket the whole company though. If someone told me
>that,
>> I could at least realize the assumption I made and revise it. People here
>> though hold on to their 'reality' as the absolute 'truth' and won't even
>> realize that maybe their impression was wrong.
>>
>> >
>> >Are they idiotic because they are skeptical of the integrity of these
>> >sites? Absolutely not. They are idiotic because they believe a few
>> >anecdotes and personal perceptions are a worthy logical argument to be
>> >presented to an audience.
>>
>> Human nature. But as humans we should have the ability to reconsider our
>> initial impressions. And you and I have to realize where they are coming
>from.
>>
>> None of them would bother to do any sort of
>> >statistical analysis (and it wouldn't take millions of hands, a few
>> >hundred would probably do) because they have absolutely no concept of
>> >statistics.
>>
>> Lol. Agree here. It is a lot easier to post a few hands and scream then
>sit
>> down with thousands of hand histories, put them through Crystal Forecasting
>(an
>> Excel add-on), figure out significant levels and standard deviations and
>then
>> test it again and again. If someone could that, I would certainly listen.
>
>>
>> >
>> >These are the same people who bitch and moan at the guy on 3rd base in
>> >Blackjack who splits his 10's/takes a bad hit and takes the dealers bust
>> >card. They blame him for the loss, forgetting every time this bad play
>> >actually made them money when it ended up causing a dealer bust. As their
>> >losses pile up, they blame him for throwing off "the flow of the cards."
>>
>> Oh man, is that the truth.
>>
>>
>> >They study the different Roulette electronic boards like they are stock
>> >charts. They believe slot machines get "hot". They are clueless, they
>> >will never point at themselves for their monetary misfortunes, they are
>> >typical Poker players and typical GAMBLERS. It is no surprise they are
>> >running amok on this board.
>> >
>>
>> I think this sums up the lack of personal responsibility people feel. It
>is
>> always someone else. You never see people posting that they were
>outplayed.
>> Nah, just scream about one hand and that will summarize all of online
>poker.
>>
>> It is more interesting for me to see how human nature plays out on this
>board.
>> And realize this goes on in life.
>>
>> The blame game!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> >O-PG
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------
>> >Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
>> >http://www.online-pokerguide.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Sep 18 2003 2:30PM, Siam wrote:
>> >
>> >> Jesus, how many people are going to keep posting how 'xyz' online site
>is
>> >> rigged because they lost with 'XY' hand vs. 'AB' hand.
>> >>
>> >> Or, I played for 'x' hours online and I have never seen anything like
>that
>> >in
>> >> all my years in 'z' brick and mortar.
>> >>
>> >> Proof would be some type of code disclosure or gathering hundreds of
>> >thousands
>> >> of hands and showing the expectation was more than 4 SD's from the
>average.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> And finally -- if you really believe it, don't play online. Just learn
>how
>> >to
>> >> form an argument with proof vs. what you think.
>> >>
>> >> Ah, the irony. This is only what I think. But I have studied
>statistical
>> >> measures and psychology and I am a winning online and B&M player so I
>know
>> >a
>> >> little bit of what I am talking about.
>> >>
>> >> People over empahsis events that happen to them personally. They are
>> >biased
>> >> and cannot look at the situation objectively.
>> >>
>> >> Many people have an irrational fear of flying. Even though it is
>> >significantly
>> >> more likely that you will die driving, many people refuse to fly. And
>they
>> >> know the statistics, yet they still refuse to fly.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[mvance]

On Sep 18 2003 4:30PM, Siam wrote:

> If you have A-A, you should be screaming for that K-8 to come after you. Do
> you want everyone to fold pre-flop and just take down the measly blinds???
>

as a newbie to the poker game, reading this board has taught me two huge
lessons: "two cards does not a hand make" and "all you can do is get your
money in with the best hand and let it hold up".. in my play, yes, Ive
been outdrawn by a lesser hand quite often no matter where I play, be it
B&M, online, home games.. if you've shot your wad before the cards are
fully dealt, then you're GAMBLING that the remaining cards will not change
who has the best hand..

may the nuts be with you

-mvance

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com