Limping in late - speculative hands

[JordanC]

Here's a big playing strategy that I've been pondering in games the past
few months. I've been making steady profit at it, nothing too big, not
many downswings. One bit of my play that I'm re-assessing is my play of
speculative holdings in late position.

Much more often then not, I will fold hands like QT, J9s, T8s, 87s, etc.
in late position with many limpers in front of me. Although these hands
can payoff well if you hit the flop correctly, I've gone under the logic
that I would stand to lose money by spending the small bet all the time.

Another point of logic is that in very loose games, others will be doing
the same, so how can you safely assume that a flush you made with 98s is
not going to be beaten by something like Q9s or AXs?

I know that I'm not completely wrong in folding these hands, erring in
caution as playing more tight that most can never be outright detrimental,
but is my logic flawed in some way? Should I stand to make a more
maximized amount if I start limping in with these hands?

--- JordanC
Poker Comic

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[secret156]

J9s is a mandatory call when you're in late position and 3 or more people
have already limped in. On the other hand, you might consider folding QTo
in that situation.

On Sep 19 2003 11:09AM, JordanC wrote:

> Here's a big playing strategy that I've been pondering in games the past
> few months. I've been making steady profit at it, nothing too big, not
> many downswings. One bit of my play that I'm re-assessing is my play of
> speculative holdings in late position.
>
> Much more often then not, I will fold hands like QT, J9s, T8s, 87s, etc.
> in late position with many limpers in front of me. Although these hands
> can payoff well if you hit the flop correctly, I've gone under the logic
> that I would stand to lose money by spending the small bet all the time.
>
> Another point of logic is that in very loose games, others will be doing
> the same, so how can you safely assume that a flush you made with 98s is
> not going to be beaten by something like Q9s or AXs?
>
> I know that I'm not completely wrong in folding these hands, erring in
> caution as playing more tight that most can never be outright detrimental,
> but is my logic flawed in some way? Should I stand to make a more
> maximized amount if I start limping in with these hands?
>
> --- JordanC
> Poker Comic

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Mike]

On Sep 19 2003 2:09PM, JordanC wrote:

> Here's a big playing strategy that I've been pondering in games the past
> few months. I've been making steady profit at it, nothing too big, not
> many downswings. One bit of my play that I'm re-assessing is my play of
> speculative holdings in late position.
>
> Much more often then not, I will fold hands like QT, J9s, T8s, 87s, etc.
> in late position with many limpers in front of me. Although these hands
> can payoff well if you hit the flop correctly, I've gone under the logic
> that I would stand to lose money by spending the small bet all the time.
>
> Another point of logic is that in very loose games, others will be doing
> the same, so how can you safely assume that a flush you made with 98s is
> not going to be beaten by something like Q9s or AXs?

A flush over flush doesn't occur as often as you probably think. No need
to worry about it.

> I know that I'm not completely wrong in folding these hands, erring in
> caution as playing more tight that most can never be outright detrimental,
> but is my logic flawed in some way? Should I stand to make a more
> maximized amount if I start limping in with these hands?

If the limpers are loose, you can limp in late position with the hands you
mentioned.

Regards,
Mike

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[Andy]

On Sep 19 2003 6:34PM, Jon Eaton wrote:

> I'd play those suited connectors if the price is right in late, and
> almost anything high enough suited in late with enough callers. You might
> be scared off by the fact there's more callers, but the fact is if you hit
> it just right you'll pay off big. The pot odds are generally there--if
> there's 4-5 callers at say $10, that's $10 to catch over $60. 6 or 7 to 1
> just to hit a flop, that's not bad.
>
How would you guys handle the same situation in later tournament rounds
where chip value has decreased with the higher limits?

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[Jon Eaton]

It all depends, but in most situations, I myself play tighter the later
it gets, unless the competition is too. If they are, I'll probably raise in
a late position with a decent hand like suited connectors and hope to steal
a pot.

Jon

"Andy" <anonymous@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3f6b5910$0$231$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> On Sep 19 2003 6:34PM, Jon Eaton wrote:
>
> > I'd play those suited connectors if the price is right in late, and
> > almost anything high enough suited in late with enough callers. You
might
> > be scared off by the fact there's more callers, but the fact is if you
hit
> > it just right you'll pay off big. The pot odds are generally there--if
> > there's 4-5 callers at say $10, that's $10 to catch over $60. 6 or 7 to
1
> > just to hit a flop, that's not bad.
> >
> How would you guys handle the same situation in later tournament rounds
> where chip value has decreased with the higher limits?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>

[Lucas Ford]

Depends on your games. In my case, I play short-handed games usually
full of weak-tighties so I will limp late with a wide variety of hands
(and raise late as well with some of the hands you mention). My post
flop play is a real strength of my game but because my opponents are
on average so weak, limping late is a big part of my arsenal. YMMV.


"JordanC" <anonymous@punktemple.com> wrote in message news:<3f6b4651$0$51784$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>...
> Here's a big playing strategy that I've been pondering in games the past
> few months. I've been making steady profit at it, nothing too big, not
> many downswings. One bit of my play that I'm re-assessing is my play of
> speculative holdings in late position.
>
> Much more often then not, I will fold hands like QT, J9s, T8s, 87s, etc.
> in late position with many limpers in front of me. Although these hands
> can payoff well if you hit the flop correctly, I've gone under the logic
> that I would stand to lose money by spending the small bet all the time.
>
> Another point of logic is that in very loose games, others will be doing
> the same, so how can you safely assume that a flush you made with 98s is
> not going to be beaten by something like Q9s or AXs?
>
> I know that I'm not completely wrong in folding these hands, erring in
> caution as playing more tight that most can never be outright detrimental,
> but is my logic flawed in some way? Should I stand to make a more
> maximized amount if I start limping in with these hands?
>
> --- JordanC
> Poker Comic
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Bing]

On 19 Sep 2003 18:09:21 GMT, "JordanC" <anonymous@punktemple.com>
wrote:

> Much more often then not, I will fold hands like QT, J9s, T8s, 87s, etc.
> in late position with many limpers in front of me.

Amazing. Those are some of the exact hands I am looking for in
that position. As you say, they are speculative hands and you
are in the exact position you want to be with them. If the flop
hits you hard, you get to see how everyone else reacts. Ditto
if the flop partially hits you.

> Although these hands
> can payoff well if you hit the flop correctly, I've gone under the logic
> that I would stand to lose money by spending the small bet all the time.

Look at it as if you were spooning chum into the water. By playing
those hands, you are setting the table up for a major kill when
you hit it.

Further, if you don't play these hands except from the blind,
your opponents should quickly realize that you only play the
premium hands and get out of your way if call or, God forbid,
bet.

I actually love to see this kind of player in a game. They slowly
lose money to the blinds and an occasional call. And, when they
do get a large pocket pair or AK, everyone knows it and folds.
I get a chuckle when one of those people complain that no one
ever calls them when they have a good hand.

We had one in the game this Friday--a young kid who obviously
knew a little something about the game (he did the chip riffle).
But, I soon noticed that he never called any pre-flop bet unless
he had a high Ace or large pocket pair. He called after the flop
only if he had top pair or better. He only bet if he could see
that he currently had the nut hand.

I avoided any showdowns with him by betting at him if the flop
didn't have an Ace and folding to him if it did.

His stack slowly drained away and he left the table after two
hours mumbling how he couldn't make any money on his good hands.

-- Bing Monopoly Expansion Set
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