income tax on poker site cashouts ?

[woolworth510]

do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
on it

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[Ray Sittup]

yes

"woolworth510" <anonymous@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3f8c5605$0$240$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
> check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
> on it
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>

[2fold]

Absolutely not! This applies also to cashouts from sportsbooks. Since
offshore sportsbooks and poker rooms are not regulated by the US they do
not report your winnings to the IRS. I've cashed out dozens of times,
mostly from sportsbooks, and have never paid a cent in taxes on it.


On Oct 14 2003 9:15AM, woolworth510 wrote:

> do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
> check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
> on it

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com

[Paul L. Schwartz]

"woolworth510" <anonymous@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3f8c5605$0$240$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
> check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
> on it
>

Which country do you live in?

I'll assume USA since most Americans are pompous enough to think the USA is
the default country.

Do you mean, do you legally have to pay taxes? The answer is yes you
legally have to pay taxes.

Or, do you mean, can you get away without paying taxes even though you are
legally required to do so? The answer here is, yes you probably can get
away with it, but keep in mind the more money you transfer, the more likely
you get caught, and that the penalties are severe.

Paul

[SGelwarg]

The correct answer should be obvious to all poker buffs.......

"IT DEPENDS."

Speak with your accountant. He'll want a list of your deposits and cash outs.

[Michael Lemkin]

On Oct 14 2003 7:30AM, Paul L. Schwartz wrote:

> "woolworth510" <anonymous@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:3f8c5605$0$240$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> > do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
> > check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
> > on it
> >
>
> Which country do you live in?
>
> I'll assume USA since most Americans are pompous enough to think the USA is
> the default country.
>
> Do you mean, do you legally have to pay taxes? The answer is yes you
> legally have to pay taxes.
>
> Or, do you mean, can you get away without paying taxes even though you are
> legally required to do so? The answer here is, yes you probably can get
> away with it, but keep in mind the more money you transfer, the more likely
> you get caught, and that the penalties are severe.
> Absolutely - don't forget though that gambling gains can be offset by any
other gambling losses - your cashout may not represent pure profit but it can
be offset by losses at other gaming enterprises. The government always wants
its share but since the overwhelming amount of gamblers LOSE money, it
collects very little from gamblers
> Paul

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[2fold]

> Which country do you live in?
>
> I'll assume USA since most Americans are pompous enough to think the USA is
> the default country.
>
> Do you mean, do you legally have to pay taxes? The answer is yes you
> legally have to pay taxes.
>
> Or, do you mean, can you get away without paying taxes even though you are
> legally required to do so? The answer here is, yes you probably can get
> away with it, but keep in mind the more money you transfer, the more likely
> you get caught, and that the penalties are severe.
>
> Paul

Paul--how in earth can you think that we legally have to pay taxes on an
activity that our government still considers illegal? If I get car jacked
today and robbed of all the cash in my wallet is the punk who robbed me
supposed to pay taxes on what he stole?? Of course I'm not comparing my
hobbies of poker and sportsbetting to robbery--but our pompous
hypocritical politicians do just that. They can't have it both ways--and
you're wrong about the money transfers too. Neteller and firepay do report
transfers to the IRS over a certain amount but the offshore sportsbooks
and poker rooms do not--so always have significant payouts (greater than
$500) sent to you via a courier and not by electronic means.
As long as they (the windbag politicians) consider these activities
illegal, how can they expect tax revenue from it? Even if it was
considered legal just what would give them the right to tax woolwoth510's
winnings? What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't
he then be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?

JerryH (2fold)

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[Ray Sittup]

"2fold" <anonymous@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f8c7cf8$0$165$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> > Which country do you live in?
> >
> > I'll assume USA since most Americans are pompous enough to think the USA
is
> > the default country.
> >
> > Do you mean, do you legally have to pay taxes? The answer is yes you
> > legally have to pay taxes.
> >
> > Or, do you mean, can you get away without paying taxes even though you
are
> > legally required to do so? The answer here is, yes you probably can get
> > away with it, but keep in mind the more money you transfer, the more
likely
> > you get caught, and that the penalties are severe.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Paul--how in earth can you think that we legally have to pay taxes on an
> activity that our government still considers illegal? If I get car jacked
> today and robbed of all the cash in my wallet is the punk who robbed me
> supposed to pay taxes on what he stole?? Of course I'm not comparing my
> hobbies of poker and sportsbetting to robbery--but our pompous
> hypocritical politicians do just that. They can't have it both ways--and
> you're wrong about the money transfers too. Neteller and firepay do report
> transfers to the IRS over a certain amount

Arent these companies located offshore also?

> but the offshore sportsbooks
> and poker rooms do not--so always have significant payouts (greater than
> $500) sent to you via a courier and not by electronic means.
> As long as they (the windbag politicians) consider these activities
> illegal, how can they expect tax revenue from it? Even if it was
> considered legal just what would give them the right to tax woolwoth510's
> winnings? What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't
> he then be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?
>
> JerryH (2fold)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>

[Hood]

He is right, you have to legally claim all money you earn, even if you the
method wast illegal. That is how they got Al Capone.

"2fold" <anonymous@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f8c7cf8$0$165$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
> > Which country do you live in?
> >
> > I'll assume USA since most Americans are pompous enough to think the USA
is
> > the default country.
> >
> > Do you mean, do you legally have to pay taxes? The answer is yes you
> > legally have to pay taxes.
> >
> > Or, do you mean, can you get away without paying taxes even though you
are
> > legally required to do so? The answer here is, yes you probably can get
> > away with it, but keep in mind the more money you transfer, the more
likely
> > you get caught, and that the penalties are severe.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Paul--how in earth can you think that we legally have to pay taxes on an
> activity that our government still considers illegal? If I get car jacked
> today and robbed of all the cash in my wallet is the punk who robbed me
> supposed to pay taxes on what he stole?? Of course I'm not comparing my
> hobbies of poker and sportsbetting to robbery--but our pompous
> hypocritical politicians do just that. They can't have it both ways--and
> you're wrong about the money transfers too. Neteller and firepay do report
> transfers to the IRS over a certain amount but the offshore sportsbooks
> and poker rooms do not--so always have significant payouts (greater than
> $500) sent to you via a courier and not by electronic means.
> As long as they (the windbag politicians) consider these activities
> illegal, how can they expect tax revenue from it? Even if it was
> considered legal just what would give them the right to tax woolwoth510's
> winnings? What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't
> he then be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?
>
> JerryH (2fold)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
>
>

[Octo the Genarian]

"2fold" <anonymous@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f8c7cf8$0$165$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...

>
> Paul--how in earth can you think that we legally have to pay taxes on an
> activity that our government still considers illegal? If I get car jacked
> today and robbed of all the cash in my wallet is the punk who robbed me
> supposed to pay taxes on what he stole??


This is reality, not political philosophy 101. Yes you have a legal duty to
pay taxes to the IRS on gambling income.

It is a simple factual question. No considerations of logic or justice are
necessary.


PS - Why is it that lately everyone is so sure online gambling is illegal? I
thought the prevailing opinion on RGP was the contrary.

[Lee Munzer]

"2fold" ...

> Paul--how in earth can you think that we legally have to pay taxes on an
activity that our government still considers illegal?

Let's not talk "legally" or "have to", but "U. S. tax law". U.S. tax
regulations require one pay income tax on illegally obtained income.


> If I get car jacked today and robbed of all the cash in my wallet is the
punk who robbed me supposed to pay taxes on what he stole??

Yes, including the fair market value of the cowhide. While you are
justified in seeing the absurdity, she is required to report the income
according to tax code.


>Of course I'm not comparing my hobbies of poker and sportsbetting to
robbery--but our pompous hypocritical politicians do just that. They can't
have it both ways...
That's what they are trying to do though.


> you're wrong about the money transfers too. Neteller and firepay do report
transfers to the IRS over a certain amount but the offshore sportsbooks and
poker rooms do not--so always have significant payouts (greater than $500)
sent to you via a courier and not by electronic means.

I'm not sure whether neteller.com, a Canadian company, reports >$9,999
transactions (made in a single or two related transactions). While most of
us are familiar with the $10,000 transaction regulation, it is less widely
known that if you are in the U. S. and make two "layering" $6,000 similar
transactions (related) the cashier would be required to report the
transactions despite the fact that neither exceeded $9,999.

To research this, type "Illegal Source Financial Crimes Program" into your
search engine. In a nutshell it encompasses all tax and tax related
violations including laundering and currency violations. A nasty part of
this program is the forfeiture statutes... they claim illegally obtained
cash and assets from individuals and organizations.


> What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't he then
be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?

Yes, net winnings calculated as per pub. 529 over the calendar year if he's
like most of us who report income from 1/1 thru 12/31.

[2fold]

On Oct 14 2003 12:15PM, Hood wrote:

> He is right, you have to legally claim all money you earn, even if you the
> method wast illegal. That is how they got Al Capone.

Yep, I know that. In 1927 the courts ruled that all earnings were taxable
even if earned illegally--mainly just in order to get Capone. My main
point is just the hypocrisy of it all. That same judge played in a judges
poker game every friday night. Legal doesn't always mean right. Also, I
would suggest that no matter how much you win gambling that you keep your
financial records well hidden--because that is what really led to old
Capone's downfall.

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[Lone Locust of the Apocalypse]

"Lee Munzer" <luckylee@cox.net> writes:
>"2fold" ...
>> What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't he then
>>be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?
>
>Yes, net winnings calculated as per pub. 529 over the calendar year if he's
>like most of us who report income from 1/1 thru 12/31.

Not quite "net" winnings:

You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your gambling losses
and report the difference. You must report the full amount of your
winnings as income and claim your losses (up to the amount of
winnings) as an itemized deduction. Therefore, your records should
show your winnings separately from your losses.

[http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf]

(I'm pretty sure Lee knows this and just misspoke.)

[Lee Munzer]

"Lone Locust of the Apocalypse" et...
> "Lee Munzer" <luckylee@cox.net> writes:
> >"2fold" ...
> >> What if he lost more than $850 before finally winning? Shouldn't he
then
> >>be taxed only on his net gains over the long run?
> >
> >Yes, net winnings calculated as per pub. 529 over the calendar year if
he's
> >like most of us who report income from 1/1 thru 12/31.
>
> Not quite "net" winnings:
>
> You cannot reduce your gambling winnings by your gambling losses
> and report the difference. You must report the full amount of your
> winnings as income and claim your losses (up to the amount of
> winnings) as an itemized deduction. Therefore, your records should
> show your winnings separately from your losses.
>
> [http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf]
>
> (I'm pretty sure Lee knows this and just misspoke.)

He does and has written about that requirement on RGP previously, but he was
down to his his last T400 in chips and got sloppy. They got a judge on
"netting" a few years ago as I recall.

Lee

[howardbeal1]

"woolworth510" <anonymous@aol.com> wrote in message news:<3f8c5605$0$240$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>...
> do u have to pay any taxes on cashouts from pokersites, i just receved a
> check for 850 from pokerstars and was wondering if i had to pay any taxes
> on it
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
you owe taxes on all your income from whatever source unless it is
tax-exempt (i.e. municipal bonds and the like). Gambling winnings are
taxable in their net amount so you can deduct your losses to the
extent of your winnings only. The money is taxed as ordinary income
unless you are a pro player and then you can offset other expenses as
business related. The people who are telliing you that you do not owe
taxes because the money comes from overseas are wrong.

All that said, it may be that what you really want to know is whether
or not you can get away with not declaring it and the answer is
probably, if you are never audited. If you ever DO have to explain
various deposits from poker sites what will you say then?

For those of you with the inclination to not pay your taxes I suggest
openning an account at a check cashing store so that the checks never
pass thru your accounts.

BTW- the IRS will not pay much attention to a line in your return
stating 850 in winnings and another line of 850 in losses leaving you
owing nothing on that amount

[Trucker1000]

Even if you don't report it, your bank is required to report all large
transactions to the IRS anyways. It was $10k, but I think it's $5k now.
Anything less than that you may get away w/. Then again, you may not.

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[Martin Koetsier]

"SGelwarg" <sgelwarg@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:20031014174413.10065.00000376@mb-m22.aol.com...
> The correct answer should be obvious to all poker buffs.......
>
> "IT DEPENDS."

LOL