The Red Sox and Grady Little

[steve]

After reading some things, and seeing some other things on TV, I have to
throw my 2 cents in.

Pedro did not talk Grady Little into leaving him in,

first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th. Pedro has
not pitched past the 7th inning all year, and after he throws 100+
pitches opponents are hitting in the neighborhood of .370 off him.

OK so he goes out there gets beat up a little and Hideki Matsui is
coming up, Grady walks out and half heartedly asks Pedro "you still got
it?" I think Grady was afraid of pulling Pedro and losing and having him
say later, like Clemens has done to McNamara, that he wanted to stay in.
(BULLSHIT by the way)

Grady Little will go down in BoSox history as another example of
changing a winning strategy that has been working all postseason in a
big game. Timlin in the 8th, Williamson in the 9th, ballgame!

In 86 we had Shiraldi come out of the bullpen already covered in sweat
with wide eyes, Dave Stapleton, Buckner's defensive replacement all
year, sittin on the bench, and now we have the 8th inning of 2003, if
the other team beats you I can live with that, but don't beat yourself.

The Red Sox are like the girlfriend that keeps breaking your heart, but
no matter what she has done you keep going back to her because you love
her. She tells you how it's going to work this time and you believe her,
and just when things seem perfect you come home and she's in bed with
your brother. That's how I feel watching the Red Sox, they can keep
tearing my heart out and stepping on it but I'll always love them, no
matter what and I'll always believe it's going to work this time!

Heres to the Red Sox the best team to be a fan of in sports!!!! YANKEES
SUCK!!!!

Steve

** Anonymous RGP ACCESS at http://www.LiveActionPoker.com

** $100 Deposit Bonus at http://www.FabulousPoker.com

[Nng2000]

>first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th.

if pedro didnt come out and some reliever blew the game, everyone whould be
saying "why did that idiot little pull pedro?"

the guy was cruising. there was no reason to pull him before the inning
started.

NNG

[Ed Hill 777]

<< Heres to the Red Sox the best team to be a fan of in sports!!!! YANKEES
SUCK!!!! >>>>

The Cubs and the Red Sox chocked, period! They both folded the best hand.

Winners win and losers lose, both the Cubs and Sox did what they know how to
do, lose. The Yankees did what they know how to do, win.

Nobody in a big game like this is much of a favorite, both teams were
believers, except one was waiting to see what was going to happen to them and
the other was trying to win.

Wonder what the result would have been if the Yankess had a 3-0 in the 8th when
a fan screwed them, they would be in the Series right now, oh, wait aminute,
they are.

[Itea]

"steve" <steverudd01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f90b5f5$0$199$75868355@news.frii.net...
> After reading some things, and seeing some other things on TV, I have to
> throw my 2 cents in.
>
> Pedro did not talk Grady Little into leaving him in,
>
> first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th. Pedro has
> not pitched past the 7th inning all year,

Except for April 5, May 3, August 6, September 10, and September 16.

This isn't that hard to check.

- Itea

[Lee Munzer]

"steve" (excerpted)...

> Pedro did not talk Grady Little into leaving him in,
This is an assumption, but I agree.

Managers have been around the block and automatically downgrade a starting
pitcher's confidence when approached in this type of situation. We can
pretty much assume what went on:
Grady: How do you feel, Pedro?
Pedro (or any good competitor): Good, no problems, skip.

Now an important step:
Grady: (looks inquisitively at his catcher)
Varitek: (or almost any catcher) diplomatically gives *accurate
assessment*
as he sees it -- although he needs a relationship with his pitchers, he will
not mislead Grady at this important junction. My guess is Varitek told
Little what the jug gun was telling me... Pedro is throwing as hard as he
has all day. He may have indicated Pedro's location and movement were
better earlier. If not, Grady may ask about movement and location but he
can probably see that for himself.

Manager: assumes his ultimate responsibility after reviewing above input
and
evaluating his less than great options imo (Martinez or
Lowe/Wakefield/Timlin/Williamson in this case).


> first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th. Pedro has
> not pitched past the 7th inning all year, and after he throws 100+
> pitches opponents are hitting in the neighborhood of .370 off him.

Where did you get these stats? Are you a Russ G. identity? :-).

I watched Pedro pitch two complete games this year and I bet a third where I
know he went the distance. While he does weaken when throwing over 95
pitches (he drops to a .287 opponent batting average from pitches 91-135)
you must factor in he's incredible with two outs and RISP (batters hit about
..120 against him) thus he reaches back in tough situations and handles
pressure very well. This type of pressure might be beyond Timlin and Lowe
(as a Sox fan I'm sure you realize how poorly Lowe pitched on the road this
year). The natural was Wakefield since he has had success, is seasoned, and
the adjustment from Pedro to Wakefield is a factor for a hitter.


> Grady Little will go down in BoSox history as another example of
> changing a winning strategy that has been working all postseason in a
> big game. Timlin in the 8th, Williamson in the 9th, ballgame!

Not for that specifically... but for failing to yank Pedro. And that's
because the media has jumped all over this difficult decision that, if the
Sox lost, was going to be critiqued either way (if Grady yanks Pedro and his
reliever(s) comes in cold and wild the world would have wanted to know why
he took the best pitcher in baseball -- and a great competitor -- out).
Also, I believe Timlin wasn't in his plans when he approached Pedro. Lowe,
Wakefield, and possibly Williamson, but you have to remember how badly
Williamson pitched for him since coming over from the Reds and he can be
wild.

> That's how I feel watching the Red Sox, they can keep
> tearing my heart out and stepping on it but I'll always love them, no
> matter what and I'll always believe it's going to work this time!

I think they will struggle for awhile based on their contract situation.

Lee

[Exacta]

No optical instrument can challenge the very high resolution of the
"retrospectascope."

A perfect time to challenge any/all decisions is after the fact.

The Sox and their fans weren't really "losers" until the fans started
all this blather, second-guessing the manager's decision. I have to
believe Little was in a better position to make that decision than any
poster to this NG, and perhaps than anybody, anywhere. And I doubt you
could find a person more motivated to make the right decision, nor one
more affected by that decision.

Game over...




On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:05:34 -0700, "Lee Munzer" <luckylee@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>"steve" (excerpted)...
>
>> Pedro did not talk Grady Little into leaving him in,
>This is an assumption, but I agree.
>
>Managers have been around the block and automatically downgrade a starting
>pitcher's confidence when approached in this type of situation. We can
>pretty much assume what went on:
> Grady: How do you feel, Pedro?
> Pedro (or any good competitor): Good, no problems, skip.
>
>Now an important step:
> Grady: (looks inquisitively at his catcher)
> Varitek: (or almost any catcher) diplomatically gives *accurate
>assessment*
>as he sees it -- although he needs a relationship with his pitchers, he will
>not mislead Grady at this important junction. My guess is Varitek told
>Little what the jug gun was telling me... Pedro is throwing as hard as he
>has all day. He may have indicated Pedro's location and movement were
>better earlier. If not, Grady may ask about movement and location but he
>can probably see that for himself.
>
> Manager: assumes his ultimate responsibility after reviewing above input
>and
>evaluating his less than great options imo (Martinez or
>Lowe/Wakefield/Timlin/Williamson in this case).
>
>
>> first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th. Pedro has
>> not pitched past the 7th inning all year, and after he throws 100+
>> pitches opponents are hitting in the neighborhood of .370 off him.
>
>Where did you get these stats? Are you a Russ G. identity? :-).
>
>I watched Pedro pitch two complete games this year and I bet a third where I
>know he went the distance. While he does weaken when throwing over 95
>pitches (he drops to a .287 opponent batting average from pitches 91-135)
>you must factor in he's incredible with two outs and RISP (batters hit about
>.120 against him) thus he reaches back in tough situations and handles
>pressure very well. This type of pressure might be beyond Timlin and Lowe
>(as a Sox fan I'm sure you realize how poorly Lowe pitched on the road this
>year). The natural was Wakefield since he has had success, is seasoned, and
>the adjustment from Pedro to Wakefield is a factor for a hitter.
>
>
>> Grady Little will go down in BoSox history as another example of
>> changing a winning strategy that has been working all postseason in a
>> big game. Timlin in the 8th, Williamson in the 9th, ballgame!
>
>Not for that specifically... but for failing to yank Pedro. And that's
>because the media has jumped all over this difficult decision that, if the
>Sox lost, was going to be critiqued either way (if Grady yanks Pedro and his
>reliever(s) comes in cold and wild the world would have wanted to know why
>he took the best pitcher in baseball -- and a great competitor -- out).
>Also, I believe Timlin wasn't in his plans when he approached Pedro. Lowe,
>Wakefield, and possibly Williamson, but you have to remember how badly
>Williamson pitched for him since coming over from the Reds and he can be
>wild.
>
>> That's how I feel watching the Red Sox, they can keep
>> tearing my heart out and stepping on it but I'll always love them, no
>> matter what and I'll always believe it's going to work this time!
>
>I think they will struggle for awhile based on their contract situation.
>
>Lee
>

Bill

[steve]

Sorry about the stats guys, I got some bad info from a very good
baseball man. the guy is actually a MLB scout so i took what he told me
at face value without checking!

as for second guessing after the fact you are wrong. when pedro went out
for the 8th I said "Huh????" when he left him for Matsui I said
"HUH?????" and when he then left him for posada I said nothing because i
was shell shocked. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who said these
things at the time.

If you followed the Sox you would know Grady has made qustionable
decisions all year, and his job was on the line this year if he didn't
make a winner. I think Epstein is the best thing to happen to the red
sox for awhile.

Bullpen by comittee never works, basically you're telling evry pitcher
in the pen, I have no confidence in any of you to get the job done and
your job is on the line every time you pitch. WOW what a motivater
thanks Skip!!!

Williamson has pitched great since his wife and child recovered, they
were both extremely ill and had to stay in Cincinatti when he was
traded. I can understand if he didn't pitch for a while.



** Anonymous RGP ACCESS at http://www.LiveActionPoker.com

** $100 Deposit Bonus at http://www.FabulousPoker.com

[Vince lepore]

steve <steverudd01@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3f90b5f5$0$199$75868355@news.frii.net>...
> After reading some things, and seeing some other things on TV, I have to
> throw my 2 cents in.
>
> Pedro did not talk Grady Little into leaving him in,
>
> first he NEVER should have gone out to the mound in the 8th. Pedro has
> not pitched past the 7th inning all year, and after he throws 100+
> pitches opponents are hitting in the neighborhood of .370 off him.
>
> OK so he goes out there gets beat up a little and Hideki Matsui is
> coming up, Grady walks out and half heartedly asks Pedro "you still got
> it?" I think Grady was afraid of pulling Pedro and losing and having him
> say later, like Clemens has done to McNamara, that he wanted to stay in.
> (BULLSHIT by the way)
>
> Grady Little will go down in BoSox history as another example of
> changing a winning strategy that has been working all postseason in a
> big game. Timlin in the 8th, Williamson in the 9th, ballgame!
>
> In 86 we had Shiraldi come out of the bullpen already covered in sweat
> with wide eyes, Dave Stapleton, Buckner's defensive replacement all
> year, sittin on the bench, and now we have the 8th inning of 2003, if
> the other team beats you I can live with that, but don't beat yourself.
>
> The Red Sox are like the girlfriend that keeps breaking your heart, but
> no matter what she has done you keep going back to her because you love
> her. She tells you how it's going to work this time and you believe her,
> and just when things seem perfect you come home and she's in bed with
> your brother. That's how I feel watching the Red Sox, they can keep
> tearing my heart out and stepping on it but I'll always love them, no
> matter what and I'll always believe it's going to work this time!
>
> Heres to the Red Sox the best team to be a fan of in sports!!!! YANKEES
> SUCK!!!!
>
> Steve

Grady Little managed the Sox for the whole season thru the 7th game,
7th inning of the ALCS. Who if anyone is more qualified to make a
decision at that point. Give the guy a break.

Vince


> ** Anonymous RGP ACCESS at http://www.LiveActionPoker.com
>
> ** $100 Deposit Bonus at http://www.FabulousPoker.com