The key to optimizing your chances in a tourney are to play your best poker
every single hand. There's no shortcuts. Small mistakes hurt a whole lot
more in tournaments than they do in ring play. Exploit every edge, and
avoid losing all your chips in marginal situations. There are a few key
situations where laying down the best hand would make sense, but these are
few and far between. There are also situations where it makes sense not to
bust someone out. They too are rare.

Russ is an idiot.

Just a quick comment about "Tourney 1"--

I think your all-in bet at this level is a bad move. You have bet
700+ (presumably) chips in an attempt to get 90. Plus, assuming that
your opponents are not morons (as one of them obviously was in this
case), who is going to call that bet? The only way you should expect
to get called is if you are beaten. Basically, I think you have to
look at this situaion like this--the vast majority of the time, your
opponents will fold in this situation, and you will pick up a rather
insignificant number of chips. When they don't fold, however, you are
almost a lock to be knocked out.

I think a better idea would have been to make a pot-sized bet, destroy
the odds for anyone who still had a chance to suckout on you, and move
on.

MikeJ

"Stephen Gorrell" <sgorrell@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<o5SVa.27$4b5.1865796@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
> I gave this a try last night at Party's 30+3 NL Sit n' Go's. This is the one
> I play the most anyway, so why not. Here are my thoughts and observations.
>
> Tourney 1, 15/30, BB, catch Qx of clubs, hit the Check/Fold button, 2
> players limp in. Flop comes Kx of clubs, rag. Hit the Check/Fold button,
> everybody checks. Another club on the turn. Everybody checks. Hmm... No
> pairs. 2nd nut flush. Ok, all in. Called by a guy with K's and, he hits
> another K on the river for the boat and I'm gone.
>
> Tourney 2, 50/100, haven't played a hand yet. Catch AA in early position
> (cool, things are working just like the plan), go all in, get called by AQ,
> board comes J,T,9,8,x. Gone again.
>
> Tourney's 3-7, best hands I see up to the 50/100 level are KQ, JJ, AJ, etc.
> The tables on this weeknight are much tighter than they are on the weekends.
> Typically I had one at 2K or so, 4 in the 1200-1600 range, and me at about
> 700. Play is agressive with most pots getting raised. Strategy says make
> your first move an all-in. Gotta do something. I think I survived two of
> them and managed to squeek into 3rd both times.
>
> So, a bad night. Conclusions about the strategy?
>
> 1. If the cards are running against you, this (or any other strategy you
> care to come up with) won't help.
> 2. If you tend to agressively play hands like KQ and 99 early in these types
> of tourney's this will help you survive to the money more often than you do
> now. If you've already tightened up to premium hands only in early rounds
> and routinely make the 50/100 level anyway then stick with what you have.
> 3. It is my opinion that the best way to make the money in any tourney is to
> avoid getting all of your chips in on coin-flips (medium pair vs. AK for
> example) like the plague. If you usually do this twice a tourney prior to
> the money then you are by definition limiting yourself to making the money 1
> time in 4. Personally I want to get there more often than that.
>
> --Steve

"Stephen Gorrell" <sgorrell@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<__bWa.5082$yQ2.438@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>...
> "MikeJfromFarAway" <m994770@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2e53e0c0.0307301501.1398e69e@posting.google.c om...
> > Just a quick comment about "Tourney 1"--
> >
> > I think your all-in bet at this level is a bad move.
> It certainly turned out that way
>
> > You have bet
> > 700+ (presumably) chips in an attempt to get 90.
> No, I bet 700 in chips to double-up on anybody who either thought I was
> trying to buy the pot (which I was in position to do) or was dumb enough to
> call with a drawing hand.
>
> > Plus, assuming that
> > your opponents are not morons (as one of them obviously was in this
> > case), who is going to call that bet?
> This is Party remember. I figured I had the best of it by a good margin. No
> pairs on the board. The only hand that could beat me going in was the Ax of
> clubs, and after it was checked to me I didn't think it was live. So who is
> going to call? Ac X might give it a shot hoping to catch a forth club. Trips
> will have a hard time backing away. Two pair could try it, especially if
> they were top two pair. A middle straight was possible and if someone had
> one he might have a hard time laying down. Sure enough, the top two pair
> called. Excellent!
>
> > The only way you should expect
> > to get called is if you are beaten.
> Not even slightly true on Party. People call with amazingly bad crap all the
> time. Like three all-in before the flop, one with AA, one with AQo, and the
> third caller has... drumroll please, 66! Naturally he catches a 6 on the
> river, just like he knew he would, and then watches in amazement as he
> looses to the AQo because the 6 was also the 4th diamond giving AQo a Q-high
> diamond flush. This is followed by five minutes of rant from 66 talking
> about his "bad beat".
>
> > Basically, I think you have to
> > look at this situaion like this--the vast majority of the time, your
> > opponents will fold in this situation, and you will pick up a rather
> > insignificant number of chips. When they don't fold, however, you are
> > almost a lock to be knocked out.
> When they don't fold I'm odds-on to get a big pot. I believe I have the best
> hand. I'm looking to get called. If someone wants to draw against me I want
> it to be as expensive a crap shoot for them as I can make it. If I miss-read
> the hand and one of them is trap-passing with the Ax of clubs, then I take
> my lumps and move on to the next tourney.

I just fundamentally disagree with you on this point. I my view, much
more often than not, the only way your all-in bet gets called is if
you are up against Axs. What do you think the potential caller puts
you on? I have been in situations exactly like yours before, and
barring some sort of a read, I will always fold. Anyone who wants to
wager their whole stack for 30-45 of my chips can have them. They'll
get no call from me . . . unless I have the nuts.


MikeJ

"MikeJfromFarAway" <m994770@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2e53e0c0.0308020723.1bb3b8d0@posting.google.c om...
> "Stephen Gorrell" <sgorrell@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:<__bWa.5082$yQ2.438@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>...
> > "MikeJfromFarAway" <m994770@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2e53e0c0.0307301501.1398e69e@posting.google.c om...
> > > Just a quick comment about "Tourney 1"--
> > >
> > > I think your all-in bet at this level is a bad move.
> > It certainly turned out that way
> >
> > > You have bet
> > > 700+ (presumably) chips in an attempt to get 90.
> > No, I bet 700 in chips to double-up on anybody who either thought I was
> > trying to buy the pot (which I was in position to do) or was dumb enough
to
> > call with a drawing hand.
> >
> > > Plus, assuming that
> > > your opponents are not morons (as one of them obviously was in this
> > > case), who is going to call that bet?
> > This is Party remember. I figured I had the best of it by a good margin.
No
> > pairs on the board. The only hand that could beat me going in was the Ax
of
> > clubs, and after it was checked to me I didn't think it was live. So who
is
> > going to call? Ac X might give it a shot hoping to catch a forth club.
Trips
> > will have a hard time backing away. Two pair could try it, especially if
> > they were top two pair. A middle straight was possible and if someone
had
> > one he might have a hard time laying down. Sure enough, the top two pair
> > called. Excellent!
> >
> > > The only way you should expect
> > > to get called is if you are beaten.
> > Not even slightly true on Party. People call with amazingly bad crap all
the
> > time. Like three all-in before the flop, one with AA, one with AQo, and
the
> > third caller has... drumroll please, 66! Naturally he catches a 6 on the
> > river, just like he knew he would, and then watches in amazement as he
> > looses to the AQo because the 6 was also the 4th diamond giving AQo a
Q-high
> > diamond flush. This is followed by five minutes of rant from 66 talking
> > about his "bad beat".
> >
> > > Basically, I think you have to
> > > look at this situaion like this--the vast majority of the time, your
> > > opponents will fold in this situation, and you will pick up a rather
> > > insignificant number of chips. When they don't fold, however, you are
> > > almost a lock to be knocked out.
> > When they don't fold I'm odds-on to get a big pot. I believe I have the
best
> > hand. I'm looking to get called. If someone wants to draw against me I
want
> > it to be as expensive a crap shoot for them as I can make it. If I
miss-read
> > the hand and one of them is trap-passing with the Ax of clubs, then I
take
> > my lumps and move on to the next tourney.
>
> I just fundamentally disagree with you on this point. I my view, much
> more often than not, the only way your all-in bet gets called is if
> you are up against Axs. What do you think the potential caller puts
> you on? I have been in situations exactly like yours before, and
> barring some sort of a read, I will always fold. Anyone who wants to
> wager their whole stack for 30-45 of my chips can have them. They'll
> get no call from me . . . unless I have the nuts.
>
> MikeJ

And I absolutely agree with you, unless you're playing a low-buy-in NL HE
Sit n' Go on Party where people make every kind of crap call imaginable,
especially if they have a chance to bust someone out and enough chips to
survive it without cripling themselves if they loose. So I took my read,
made my move, got exactly what I wanted, and got busted. Poker happens. Next
tourney please.

In a 2-table Sit 'n Go on PokerStars you'll loose your ass with this play. A
majority of players there are capable and a number of them like to trap.
With a suited flop and strong bet top two pair folds every time and the nut
flush calls and hopes you're dumb enough to bet it again on the river.

--Steve